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Tuxlar

You Dig (v1.7)

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You Dig v1.7



Here's a map I made with a very unusual twist on the doom experience. I won't spoil it here, beyond the name. You've just gotta see it for yourself! ;)

Please report any bugs you find. Also, I love demos, so if you make any, please post them as well! You'll need a boom-compatible port to play this (preferably prboom+), but some zdoom accommodations have been added (tested with zdoom v2.7.1 only).

Warning: UV difficulty is NOT -skill 4. The actual skill 4 difficulty is not likely going to be friendly to you if you're not already acquainted with the map!



This is a beta release. I want to try doing more with the concept later, including perhaps a multi-map set or even a map auto-generator! I may update this map for any needed fixes and refinements, including adding/removing some areas, getting an alternate music selection, rebalancing certain elements (like making the jackhammer available sooner), etc. I welcome any feedback.

Credits to Marcaek, dew, Jimmy_, ClonedPickle, jmickle, Ribbiks, BlueFeena, and Officer_D for testing, and all the folk in #doomtwid for letting me bug them for assorted troubleshooting.



Some screenshots (but these won't tell much, alas):












Changelog:

v1.7 (July 25th)

  1. Fixed exit door trigger for real.
v1.6 (July 24th)
  1. Lightened up the 'slaughter' encounters a tad.
  2. Freelook re-enabled for zdoom. This was highly unpopular. Potential for some minor triggerable breakage if used, though.
  3. Fixed exit door trigger.
  4. Various minor visual tweaks.
v1.5 (July 5th)
  1. Completely removed the Revenant Riot Room. Just not fun.
  2. Rebalanced some progression choices to be a bit less harsh.
  3. Fixed some minor scripted event bugs.
  4. Various balance tweaks.
v1.4 (July 2nd)
  1. Fixed a crucial item teleport bug.
v1.3 (July 1st)
  1. Rebalanced ammo and monsters, especially for skill 1 & 2.
  2. Removed a few "annoying" elements.
  3. Removed unused resources, reducing file size ~1mb.
  4. Tweaked some triggers and pieces of layout for better effect.
  5. Slightly tweaked some aesthetics.
  6. Implemented slightly improved color palette.
v1.2 (June 27)
  1. Slightly rebalanced ammo and monsters.
  2. Softened Jackhammer hit sound.
  3. Minor bug fixes.
  4. Reverted music.
v1.1 (June 26):
  1. Eased up ammo restrictions for skill 4.
  2. Improved cues for progression.
  3. Minor bug fixes.
  4. Implemented better version of midi music.
v1.0b (June 26)

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This is one nice mod, honestly. The digging mechanic is well-executed, with plenty of goodies to be found. If anything, this mod taught me that Revenants just love hiding in walls, waiting for you to dig 'em out. That's a great way to keep someone on their toes while they explore, because the inclusion of Revvies and other various bad guys all throughout the walls makes for a kinda tense experience while simultaneously digging hither and thither, wondering what you'll find next.

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FuzzballFox said:

Played it a little bit...very nice to hear the music from EWJ2!
Though the midi file is a lil' lacking!
http://www.vgmusic.com/new-files/EWJ2_Subterranean.mid
Feel free to use mine instead~ A lot fuller!

...but for the best experience..~
<video>
:P

I love that PS1 song so much! I get the feeling I'd be pushing into full-fledged copyright territory to try to include it, though. XD
(plus it gets a bit too dramatic towards the end for wad-use, IMO)

That midi definitely is an improvement over the one I picked, so I might include it with a subsequent iteration.

This wad should be put for a Cacoward- no joke! Very fun to mess about with and unique!

Hey thanks, man. I really appreciate hearing that!

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Tuxlar said:

I love that PS1 song so much! I get the feeling I'd be pushing into full-fledged copyright territory to try to include it, though. XD
(plus it gets a bit too dramatic towards the end for wad-use, IMO)

That midi definitely is an improvement over the one I picked, so I might include it with a subsequent iteration.


Hey thanks, man. I really appreciate hearing that!

No problem! It's not a walk in the park and yes I did end up putting on God mode but didn't take away how it played!
Yeah it would be a lil' bigger for just the one map anyway~
As for the midi I posted, because I made it I have no quarrels with it being used! C:
However if it didn't play "right", with the high hats, right where the heartbeats should be, just play it outside of Quicktime, it uses special instrument changes and the hidden SFX midi channel~

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heh this is awesome. here's an fda: https://www.mediafire.com/?3dlddltsfromasw

very fun concept, had an exploratory element not often seen in doom.

Some of the gimmicky encounters were extremely fun too. poking down the wall while maneuvering the HK/baron horde was well done. The caco-swarm + moving mud floors room was also excellent. At that point in the map I was pretty much out of ammo, ended up floundering about trying to zerk down AVs.. died in a room that had like a bajillion revenants for some reason. I guess that's what you meant by map not being friendly on UV... though truthfully it was pretty mild up until that point.

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Played it on ITYTD because I'm a sissy. Really fun, the digging mechanic was an absolute blast. The quiet, rather upbeat music was really nice, too. The only thing that bothered me was how keys tied into solid walls. It felt really odd at first and initially I thought it was some kind of bug. I also noticed that I could get the dig sound to play even on walls that weren't destructible.

You should really consider evolving this into a more proper wad, since what you have here is really, really fun. I'd honestly suggest dropping the uber-hard element that some seem to be encountering, as I think really hard fights actually detract from the digging and exploration concept.

Edit: Can't believe I forgot to mention this, played it in GZDoom. Encountered no problems, in case you're wondering. I thought restricting mouse look was an odd choice, since it doesn't really seem to actually affect the game play at all.

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BlueFeena said:

I also noticed that I could get the dig sound to play even on walls that weren't destructible.

That's because there are tons of redundant untriggered G1 lines everywhere for pillars you've already mined away. Removing them would probably lead to less smooth digging action, so this issue might be without a sensible solution. If you run around with the driller for a bit, the sound will go away eventually. :)

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Regarding difficulty: I'd focus on implementing them rather than watering down skill 4 and leaving it as the only option. I like a challenge and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

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BlueFeena said:

Played it on ITYTD because I'm a sissy. Really fun, the digging mechanic was an absolute blast. The quiet, rather upbeat music was really nice, too. The only thing that bothered me was how keys tied into solid walls. It felt really odd at first and initially I thought it was some kind of bug. I also noticed that I could get the dig sound to play even on walls that weren't destructible.

Can't fix that, unless I build new versions of the map with zdoom scripting, or something.

You should really consider evolving this into a more proper wad, since what you have here is really, really fun. I'd honestly suggest dropping the uber-hard element that some seem to be encountering, as I think really hard fights actually detract from the digging and exploration concept.

Each 'uber-hard' element is more or less a puzzle, which unless you're playing in skill 4 (or else something in the map breaks), should be solvable in puzzle-like fashion.

However, I agree that the main exploration element of the map should be the focus. These FDAs are really handy for learning how to properly implement balance for this.

Edit: Can't believe I forgot to mention this, played it in GZDoom. Encountered no problems, in case you're wondering. I thought restricting mouse look was an odd choice, since it doesn't really seem to actually affect the game play at all.

Glad gzdoom works. There are some triggers that mouse look can affect (for example, the slow-breaking pillars), unfortunately. Another of the quirks of retaining Boom compatibility.

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Ribbiks said:

heh this is awesome. here's an fda: https://www.mediafire.com/?3dlddltsfromasw

very fun concept, had an exploratory element not often seen in doom.

Some of the gimmicky encounters were extremely fun too. poking down the wall while maneuvering the HK/baron horde was well done. The caco-swarm + moving mud floors room was also excellent. At that point in the map I was pretty much out of ammo, ended up floundering about trying to zerk down AVs.. died in a room that had like a bajillion revenants for some reason. I guess that's what you meant by map not being friendly on UV... though truthfully it was pretty mild up until that point.

Thanks for the FDA!

I should note the room in question has a specific element to its solution, but I don't think it's your fault that it wasn't immediately obvious. I'll try to tweak it to resolve that.

Your playstyle was pretty well suited for the map up until that point, though. I'll consider providing more ammo for that archvile encounter, as even for the modified skill 4 that was probably a bit much.



Edit: Updated to v1.1b for minor tweaks.

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Very cool. Its kinda hard to use the doom engine built for its specific style of play and modify it into something else that is actually fun/good/non clunky (especially in boom), and this works.
I basically dug up the whole place. Then died due to ghey.
http://speedy.sh/UUVQK/youdig11-fda-cl9-ggg.lmp

I like how the surprises you dig up vary in degrees of threat/reward, sort of like how in the old game rogue you might suddenly come to a room with lots of monsters or lots of treasure.

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gggmork said:

Very cool. Its kinda hard to use the doom engine built for its specific style of play and modify it into something else that is actually fun/good/non clunky (especially in boom), and this works.
I basically dug up the whole place. Then died due to ghey.
http://speedy.sh/UUVQK/youdig11-fda-cl9-ggg.lmp

I like how the surprises you dig up vary in degrees of threat/reward, sort of like how in the old game rogue you might suddenly come to a room with lots of monsters or lots of treasure.

It's neat that the gimmick is able to work, albeit being rough around the edges. It's a shame I couldn't manage it in vanilla, but it'd be very limiting even if I did, due to visplane issues.

FYI, that upload site wants me to download an .exe to get the file. Could you try another, please? I really want to try that demo. :(

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speedyshare is pretty unintuitive, you need to click on the name of the file to download it:


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Ribbiks said:

speedyshare is pretty unintuitive, you need to click on the name of the file to download it:

Odd, it didn't work until I switched browsers. I think it doesn't like my blocker addons or something. 0/10 wouldn't recommend for use.

gggmork said:

Very cool. Its kinda hard to use the doom engine built for its specific style of play and modify it into something else that is actually fun/good/non clunky (especially in boom), and this works.
I basically dug up the whole place. Then died due to ghey.
http://speedy.sh/UUVQK/youdig11-fda-cl9-ggg.lmp

I like how the surprises you dig up vary in degrees of threat/reward, sort of like how in the old game rogue you might suddenly come to a room with lots of monsters or lots of treasure.

Nice attempt. Looks like the balance tweaks worked swimmingly (you ended up with exactly 0 rockets by the end of that flooded cavern). It's odd that archvile wasn't attacking until right up to the end, though. That's a bug.


Anyway, I like the take on Subterranean, FuzzballFox, but the song doesn't loop well, so I'm considering reverting it. The previous version doesn't sound well on certain midi players, though, but it sounds fine on others. Oh well.

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v1.2 available. Changes:
- Slightly rebalanced ammo and monsters.
- Softened Jackhammer hit sound.
- Minor bug fixes.
- Reverted music (see previous post).

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Risen3D 2.2.0-25 may not handle this. Well; it is not completely BOOM and ZDoom compatible, it doesn't have to.

WAD ERROR: map01 requires 80 entries with no corresponding lump

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LigH said:

Risen3D 2.2.0-25 may not handle this. Well; it is not completely BOOM and ZDoom compatible, it doesn't have to.

WAD ERROR: map01 requires 80 entries with no corresponding lump

Yes, I'm getting the same error. However, it appears to let me play it anyway. I'm not really sure what exactly causes this, or how to fix it. Actually, I may have an idea that I'm looking into now...

I noticed there are unused texture patch graphics in the wad data (that I'd assumed SLADE to have removed, via. the respective removal option), but this does not seem to affect the error message. It does, however, shave almost almost 1mb of file size, so I may just for that release a new version...

Edit: Hmm, I simply don't have the time to attempt guesswork solutions. There's probably a simple answer for this, but if it works, error or not, it works.

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Awesome wad, I really like the idea and its unconventional implementation, the unique atmosphere, difficulty curve is also unconventional and very well done, although hard for me. I'd only appreciate even more friendly lower difficulties, but I definitely enjoy what I can see and what I can interact with, unusually much!

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scifista42 said:

Awesome wad, I really like the idea and its unconventional implementation, the unique atmosphere, difficulty curve is also unconventional and very well done, although hard for me. I'd only appreciate even more friendly lower difficulties, but I definitely enjoy what I can see and what I can interact with, unusually much!

Glad you liked it. If you can get me a demo or specific information, I could try adjusting the lower difficulties accordingly.


Remember, I love demos! Give me alllll the demos! Om nom nom!

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Unfortunately I normally play other people's maps in Zandronum and don't record demos. Now I've played a significant part of the map multiple times, so making FDA demo wouldn't be appropriate anymore.

For "specific information", you would tone down the enemy hordes or provide a little bit more ammo lying around (perhaps cell ammo early on) to deal with them, on lower difficulties than UV.

You should also know that I'm often lazy to play properly slowly and tactically, and then I might complain about map's difficulty. But in fact, I really like and appreciate that you were able to craft out decent and interesting challenges like the HK, caco, revenant horde evading - those were nice and worked within the overall concept. With a bit more effort (abusing saves/loads :D), I'd probably manage them too - but here you go, that's why I was demanding lower difficulty, while (as I said) I enjoy having the high difficulty to challenge myself when I feel like it. This is a really well-made wad as it is, I feel I have to emphasize it once more. ;)

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scifista42 said:

Unfortunately I normally play other people's maps in Zandronum and don't record demos. Now I've played a significant part of the map multiple times, so making FDA demo wouldn't be appropriate anymore.

For "specific information", you would tone down the enemy hordes or provide a little bit more ammo lying around (perhaps cell ammo early on) to deal with them, on lower difficulties than UV.

You should also know that I'm often lazy to play properly slowly and tactically, and then I might complain about map's difficulty. But in fact, I really like and appreciate that you were able to craft out decent and interesting challenges like the HK, caco, revenant horde evading - those were nice and worked within the overall concept. With a bit more effort (abusing saves/loads :D), I'd probably manage them too - but here you go, that's why I was demanding lower difficulty, while (as I said) I enjoy having the high difficulty to challenge myself when I feel like it. This is a really well-made wad as it is, I feel I have to emphasize it once more. ;)

Well, the lower difficulties are meant for exactly what you mentioned, so I'll probably do just that. I made this with idea of adjusting (mostly) only ammo/health between difficulties; not monsters. I'll likely consider that for 1.3.

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The HK row near the beginning for instance, it would disappear on lower skill or be reduced to just 1 or 2 hell knights. Generally decrease the numbers of revenants and probably also AVs, that's what I can advise. I'm also now sure what to do with those horde avoiding setpieces, simple cutting down monster count might not work at all to an extent, and on the other hand if you removed too many, the encounter idea/mechanism would be ruined. But that would be probably the best. To redo the most difficult setpieces to make them less challenging on lower skill. I felt that the pit trap with revenants was specially over the top, perhaps on HMP there would show just about 10 revenants or less.

Just suggestions.

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Really cool and imaginative concept for a Doom map. 5/5, definitely not run of the mill stuff. Well designed too!

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v1.3

Changes:
- Rebalanced ammo and monsters, especially for skill 1 & 2.
- Removed a few "annoying" elements.
- Removed unused resources, reducing file size ~1mb.
- Tweaked some triggers and pieces of layout for better effect.
- Slightly tweaked some aesthetics.
- Implemented slightly improved color palette.

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v1.4 (sorry for the spam)
- Fixed a crucial item teleport bug.

Yeah, the revenant room was almost unbeatable with this on skill 4, unless you stockpiled rockets. Apologies. Hopefully no more oversights like this occur...

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