9 year old girl kills her gun instructor

This news is horrible. I can't be that cynical to say more into it.

Hi I'm an Australian. A big shooting spree happened here in the 90's and then we implemented strict gun control and as a result less people fucking died and we don't live in consent fear. But good luck with that 2nd amendment guys.

Captain Red said:

we don't live in consent fear.

Ever the sex obsessed Australians...

The story reads like a parody. The range was called Bullets & Burgers, are you kidding me? That's like a pun from Jagged Alliance or the Expendables. Except that Murrica's biggest parody is Murrica itself.

that was a typo, but I stand by it.

That day, the child learned the most valuable lesson about guns: they are lethal weapons, they can kill people in the blink of an eye, they are hard to control, and if you don't control them you can kill people you weren't intending to kill.

A good instructor.

RUSH said:

giving a 9 year old kid a fully automatic uzi. Seriously? You can't even legally buy that shit here in Canada.

And that's why America is #1 in the World, while Canada is just some small country with a funny name that's used a lot in American jokes. Yeah, baby[/wannabemurikkkanmode]

Sodaholic said:

I find it pretty disgusting that there are parents out there that think that teaching their kids to use firearms at a young age is some kind of vital skill needed for life. Sure, I can see it being a necessity if you're a 19th century lower class person that does their own hunting in the woods for food, but most people don't live like that anymore. Does the phrase "it's the 21st century" mean anything to these backwards ass people?

There's a big difference between responsibly teaching your children how to use weapons and giving a 9 year old girl a fucking uzi. Just saying.

DeathevokatioN said:

There's a big difference between responsibly teaching your children how to use weapons and giving a 9 year old girl a fucking uzi. Just saying.

Logic?? No place for that here. There must be animalistic howling/ape shit throwing for gun control in response to any and all accidents involving a gun.

Yes the gun instructor is pretty fucking stupid to have done that but the real question is; why the fuck was a 9 year old at a gun range in the first place? Why did her parents think it would be a great idea to think that their daughter should be learning how to use guns at that age? At that age, she should be playing with playmobil and shit, or alternatively on Candy Crush saga because every one over the age of 5 has that shit, dawg. Not practicing the use of a deadly weapon. I do feel for the girl but seriously, she shouldn't have been there in the first place. The gun instructor should have refused to teach someone that age -full- -stop-. I mean, isn't there an age law for gun ranges or something?

Quasar said:

Logic?? No place for that here. There must be animalistic howling/ape shit throwing for gun control in response to any and all accidents involving a gun.

Is that how this thread looks to you? Likewise, I can say gun freaks will always go preemptively full retard about communist muslims takin' muh guns & Freedom whenever a gun debate props up.

dew said:

Is that how this thread looks to you? Likewise, I can say gun freaks will always go preemptively full retard about communist muslims takin' muh guns & Freedom whenever a gun debate props up.

This thread in particular, not really, but I'm referring to public discussion in general, which I presume prompted this thread in the first place.

flubbernugget said:

Was the uzi in question stockless?

Nope.

Quasar said:

Logic?? No place for that here. There must be animalistic howling/ape shit throwing for gun control in response to any and all accidents involving a gun.

We are on GunControlWorld, after all (which is ironic, considering the premise of the game that brings us all together).

Springy said:

the real question is; why the fuck was a 9 year old at a gun range in the first place? Why did her parents think it would be a great idea to think that their daughter should be learning how to use guns at that age?

It's painfully obvious you're not American.

I'm not American either, but if even half of the restrictions and absurd American laws/customs described here are true, then I can understand why I would be pissed off if I didn't even have the right to bear arms. I think most Americans see this right (and other similar freedoms) as a fair exchange for what us dirty commie europinkos take for granted.

We are on GunControlWorld, after all (which is ironic, considering the premise of the game that brings us all together).

Could have been true in 1993, 1994, maybe 1995... But if right now the most important part of Doom to you is the guns and especially how "life-like" they are? In 2014, that's just weird. There's literally thousands of first-person shooters out there with more gun variety, better looking guns, more realistic guns, more surreal guns... No matter what you're looking for when it comes to video game guns, it's out there and it's better than in Doom.

Not even touching the gun control non-debate here, just talking about Doom. That's just... weird. Like saying the reason you play a MMO in which you grind monsters for hundreds of hours to level your character is for the PVP.

dew said:

Is that how this thread looks to you? Likewise, I can say gun freaks will always go preemptively full retard about communist muslims takin' muh guns & Freedom whenever a gun debate props up.

Preemptively going "full retard" and making snarky comments demonizing the other side of the debate isn't exclusive to the gun freaks' side of the argument, infact over here it's way more common among the gun grabbing Commie statists on Doomworld. :P

Also, are you reading the thread? Not the entire thread but there are already a few posts from multiple posters "discussing" gun control (including one which uses the 21st century strawman), of which if someone like Quasar or myself had to take seriously we'd get jumped on and get spoken down to, and I'd have to make sure I make no spelling mistakes so that Gez doesn't come to the rescue and correct them for me.

Anyway whatever, just give it another page.

I always considered -and still do- Doom the best game for the hunter and the gun expert. There's something inherently satisfying in shooting Doom's guns, which those -alleged- "better, modern shooters" just don't have.

For one, it has one of the most realistic shotgun behavior modeling in any game -and that's without even making concessions for its -by now, dated- engine. They simply got that right, period. It was right in 1993, it was right in 1994, and it's still very damn right in 2014.

Phml said:

Could have been true in 1993, 1994, maybe 1995... But if right now the most important part of Doom to you is the guns and especially how "life-like" they are? In 2014, that's just weird. There's literally thousands of first-person shooters out there with more gun variety, better looking guns, more realistic guns, more surreal guns... No matter what you're looking for when it comes to video game guns, it's out there and it's better than in Doom.

Okay I have to disagree here, for me I don't think there's a game that's more satisfying to kill shit with than the SSG and the rocket launcher. :P

But then again, in real life I'm terrified as hell of guns because of a past experience (that probably involved unlicensed firearms).

Maes said:

I always considered -and still do- Doom the best game for the hunter and the gun expert. There's something inherently satisfying in shooting Doom's guns, which those -alleged- "better, modern shooters" just don't have.

For one, it has one of the most realistic shotgun behavior modeling in any game -and that's without even making concessions for its -by now, dated- engine. They simply got that right, period. It was right in 1993, it was right in 1994, and it's still very damn right in 2014.

Actually the spread of Doom's shotgun is, by everything I know about shotguns (which is not that much TBH), much wider than it should be. The scatter pattern of a shotgun is a quite narrow cone which produces a tight cluster of shot holes if striking a target at reasonable range. This is what gives shotguns their phenomenal stopping power. A shotgun with the Doom one's range would really be pretty ineffective in real life.

But, that's the point you're really making I think. What works in real life isn't necessarily fun or works in a game ;) Look at Doom 3's pathetic attempt at a shotgun. I don't even know wtf is wrong with it after looking at the coding, but it sucks. It's neither realistic NOR fun.

Quasar said:

Actually the spread of Doom's shotgun is, by everything I know about shotguns (which is not that much TBH), much wider than it should be.

True, in reality, military-grade and waterfowl-hunting long-barreled shotguns are expected to have a 0.5m diameter pattern at 50 m, but the spread can be controlled by factors such as barrel length (shorter barrels give greater spread), the use of choked barrels, and the use of concentrating/dispersing wads in the shotgun shells themselves.

However, Doom's shotgun only noticeable deviation from realism is the lack of a vertical spread, though somehow it's not so annoying. The remaining horizontal spread, even if somewhat large, is not totally unrealistic, and can be achieved by using a dispersing wad.

The SSG actually has a realistic spread for a sawed-off shotgun shooting shells without a concentrator, and with totally unchoked or even slightly flared barrels, almost like a blunderbuss (those can have tremendous spreads, making them useless beyond 5m or so).

The Doom 3's shotgun...don't even mention it. Its spread is more similar to a blunderbuss O_o

DeathevokatioN said:

Preemptively going "full retard" and making snarky comments demonizing the other side of the debate isn't exclusive to the gun freaks' side of the argument, infact over here it's way more common among the gun grabbing Commie statists on Doomworld. :P

Anyway whatever, just give it another page.

What is irony, Alex?

Okay I have to disagree here, for me I don't think there's a game that's more satisfying to kill shit with than the SSG and the rocket launcher. :P

You're not disagreeing with Phml, you're talking about something entirely different (satisfaction). Doom's guns are awesome, simplistic and unrealistic, so connecting them to something from the real world is rather funny in 2014 AD.

It is kind of funny and tragic how this thread is going from a doomed gun accident to DooM guns on DooWorld the DooM forum for DooM players.

Quasar said:

I don't even know wtf is wrong with it after looking at the coding, but it sucks. It's neither realistic NOR fun.

Just amp up the damage and what is related in the shotgun script. I did it the last time i feared doom 3, and it changes the feel more to the ssg one.

Ban 9-year-olds!

I don't see why this has to turn into a gun control debate - I mean, regardless of your stance, it seems pretty dang obvious to me that uh, yeah, 9-year-olds simply don't possess the necessary strength to maintain control of something like an Uzi, so you know, maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't be allowed to fire them.

I mean, that's just common sense - likewise, I don't think you need to be anti-car to say that a 9-year-old probably shouldn't be behind the wheel. Yeah yeah, I know, this is 'Murica and all, land where guns are allegedly so prevalent they might as well be included as Happy Meal toys, but still... come on.

geekmarine said:

I don't see why this has to turn into a gun control debate.

I don't see why a lot of us have sympathy for the victim.

@geekmarine
It's the nature of politics. People tend to get on their soapbox when it comes to these issues.

@geo
It might not have been a wise decision, but he didn't deserve to die.

Yeah, I have to say, being stupid and irresponsible is one thing, but to say that he deserved to die over it... well, that's just cold, in my opinion. And yet... well, obviously, being stupid and irresponsible is precisely why he's dead. So in a sense, yeah, I guess you could argue that he absolutely deserved to die, being that he set in motion the events that led to his death. Still, no, I'm not really a pro-death kind of person. It's still tragic, regardless, just wish he'd had the sense to not give a small girl an automatic weapon. If he'd been humorously and nonfatally shot in the butt or something, I maybe could get behind that as being the consequence he deserved. I just don't think stupidity should carry the death sentence, even in situations when death by one's own stupidity is unavoidable. People shouldn't be stupid, but in a fair world, people would at least be given a chance to learn from their mistakes.

This isn't a gun control debate, because the accident happened at a shooting range and under supervision of a qualified instructor. (Who is the guy who got shot dead, but that's besides the point.)

So in no way would have stricter gun control really changed anything to this particular scenario.

reality 2.0 said:

@geekmarine
It's the nature of politics. People tend to get on their soapbox when it comes to these issues.

Internet seems to be talking at people and not to them.

He didn't deserve to die, but a 9 year old didn't deserve to have an automatic weapon. That's why I ask was she proficient in pistols before an uzi? Again, 9 year old with a golf club breaks a lot of stuff, but no one dies.

Why an uzi? Why not an automatic rifle where the barrel would be taller than the instructor? Just throwing out talking points due to boredom. Well back to the codemine with me. :-(

Gez said:

So in no way would have stricter gun control really changed anything to this particular scenario.

Liberals would argue if we banned guns we would eliminate gun deaths. You'd eliminate this particular death, but certainly not ninety percent of gun related deaths.

Technician said:

Liberals would argue if we banned guns we would eliminate gun deaths. You'd eliminate this particular death, but certainly not ninety percent of gun related deaths.

Liberals banning a part of liberty... ah.