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40oz

[RELEASE] Plutonia 1024

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Let's see if everyone's on board with continuing. I have the time to keep this going long enough for another coat of polish if they are.

A bonus episode ala NRFTL is actually a good idea, but IDK if it necessarily has to end on an IoS map. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it soon enough.

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General Rainbow Bacon said:

Actually Obsidian and I made a map for this that we were hoping to include. It came out pretty good I think. We can probably pop off a few more if you'd like :D


I posted that one a few pages back. No feedback as of yet though.

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Feedback you want? Feedback I got.

Played UV, ZDoom. Not from pistol start. Because of recent discussion, I played it as MAP29 and gave myself full ammo. I like it. The second time through was not as difficult as the first. Died a few times before I figured out to run through the Imps to get to the lift in back. From there, a Chaingunner kept one Revenant busy while I killed the other Chaingunner, then the second Revenant, then the first Revenant. The AV on the exit platform is not too bad. While on the upper platform you can run up, fire a Rocket, and usually back up to the far Chaingunner lift before the AV's attack hurts you. Repeat until he's dead. Hit the switch to lower the water and used the teleport. As soon as I started past the PE pit, they activated. I killed one; the other teleported. I saw the Blue Key and jumped down to get it. Stuck with no way out. Linedef tag 5, which raises the Blue Key sector, needs to be moved to the linedef before the lift, or a switch needs to be added at the bottom of the pit to raise it. Love the switch which opens the secret. Missed it the first time through. Teleport out and hit the Blue Key switch. The second time through I knew where the AVs were coming from so I could fire enough Rockets before they could resurrect too many monsters. The exit platform is interesting. You can avoid attacks by Hell Knights, Revenants and AV(s) on the far side of the water by stepping behind the column. Resurrected monsters on your side eventually come too close to the platform for their attacks to hit you. Your SSG is perfect for them. Only the close AV attacks and resurrected Chaingunners are really deadly while on the platform if you can't get behind the column fast enough. Also, Hell Knights can't go from the west side of the exit platform to the south side. They're too big to get between the corner and the tall platform. When you grab the Red Key you can stay where you are, turn around and shoot the Chaingunners with your Chaingun as they show their faces above the lift. Run to the far side lift, go up and shoot your Plasma Gun at the Cyber until he's dead. His rockets can't hit you. They hit the far edge of the platform so he's no threat. Maybe teleport the Cyber to the top of the tall platform instead, since that's the only way to get to the exit platform. Would need to raise the ceiling in that case. I'm sure a Pistol start would be a lot harder. Once you die a few times or get through it once, it's less difficult than it looks. Maybe need one more monster (AV? Cyber?) to show up on the exit platform when you hit the Red Key switch to lower the exit bars. If it's a Cyber, might have to move the teleport landing spot so the player isn't blocking it when he hits the switch. Also, really good music.

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Thanks for the feedback man, although you might want to use paragraphs a little more freely. :P Here's an update that swaps the Chaingunners with the Cyberdemon at the exit and also spawns an Arch-Vile(Baron on Easy) when you press the red key switch.

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double post

Here's the mock-up for the Icon fight I had in mind.

Name: Eternal Sleep
Music: "Demons on the Prowl by PRIMEVAL(from Plutonia Revisited)
Map number: MAP30
Format: Boom

At the moment it's remarkably unfinished: the gameplay and structure needs to be properly developed and there isn't a way to kill the Icon yet. If anyone wants to have a go at making it decent they're more than welcome to.

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It's not 3AM, so I used paragraphs this time.

Yes, Drowning Pool is harder now. One thing which I didn't mention last time was that when you hit the Blue Key switch, closets open and two AVs are released. Sometimes both show up south of the water pit, sometimes one shows up directly west of the exit platform where you're standing. I like that you don't know and can't tell where the second one will show up.

The Blue Key area works fine now.

Made the corner by the exit platform even tighter. Bit of a squeeze for me. But it meant I could jump off the south side of the exit platform when the AV showed up the second time through and nothing could attack me from the west side of the platform. I could just stick my face around the corner, shoot my SSG, then step back.

Swapping the teleport locations for the Cyber and the Chaingunners works much better for the Cyber, and a little better for the Chaingunners. I stepped around the corner after grabbing the Red Key. When the Chaingunners saw me they started shooting. I stepped back. They killed each other until there were only two left. They're a little tougher than before. They did get me some.

Killing the Cyber took more effort now. I would go up one of the small lifts and before it got to the top, timed shooting the BFG so it would release as I stepped out at the top. Then I'd step back off the lift and fall to the floor. Minimized exposure to rockets that way. Still took splash damage. For giggles, I tried to hit the lift switch while the Cyber was on it and get him trapped in the water pit, then use the teleport to get away. Can't be done without dying, except in God mode.

The last AV is fun. About half of the time when he'd appear he'd start resurrecting Chaingunners, so I could use the BFG and take no damage. The rest of the time he'd attack me first.

Edit: Did not try a Pistol start. I don't know if there would be enough ammo for that. Probably.

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I like how Eternal Sleep starts out. Love the "invisible" pickups. I like the teleport linedefs to keep you inside the 1024 area. Starting room is very big and unused. Unfortunately, I have no suggestions as to how to improve it. You don't need to add a lot of monsters because they'll be there soon enough. You can kill the Icon as the map stands, just not in vanilla. Trigger the lindef that drops the walls without jumping off the platform, then use free look in ZDoom.

Hmmm, maybe a non-rocket death for the Icon. Maybe leave the current set-up as a false option, but move the Icon's sector way up or down so rockets can never affect it, but so it still looks normal on the automap. Give the hallway teleport a damaging floor (or not; that may be too much) and put a covered switch on the wall past the teleport which opens when you jump off the main room platform (WR OpenDoor), so you have to use the teleport to enter the hallway twice to see the switch. The switch is GR OpenDoorStayOpenWhenShot and opens a door in front of a voodoo doll on a scrolling floor. The first linedef on the scrolling floor is a WR CloseDoor to cover the GR switch again. Then a WR CrusherCeiling above the Icon. Then a WR StopCrusher after the Icon is crushed once and the ceiling rises to its starting spot again. Then a WR CloseDoor to close the door at the beginning of the scrolling floor. Then a teleport back to the beginning of the scrolling floor. So you have to keep using the teleport and shooting the switch to eventually crush the Icon. While trying not to die. Going to need a lot more ammo to fight your way to the teleport. No idea how long a crusher would take to kill an Icon. Wait, crushers work on Icons, don't they?

Ok. I guess I do have suggestions to improve it.

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In thinking about Eternal Sleep some more I realized there might be an issue with the crusher. Depending on how long it takes for the crusher to move down and up one time, if a player is moving fast enough he could conceivably start the next cycle before the previous one has finished. So, although I like the idea of hearing the Icon in pain every cycle, I guess a simpler method would be for the crusher to start/stop and move down just a little bit every cycle. After a certain number of cycles, the crusher hits barrels surrounding the Icon. End of game.

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The gates are halfway down, meaning they will be completely shown and cutted of by unrelated sectors. And the left side of the teleporter has a different texture, I also suggest putting the bloodier texture there.
And one of the revenant paddles isn't shaped like the others and the broken plutonia near the yellow key should be darker like the others.

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This is damn awesome! The Title screen actually made me laugh. :)

The only problem I have is that MAP01 doesn't seem to be in the vein of Plutonia very much.

But still a fantastic Megawad! I'm glad to see this come out!

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Ok, I was going to do a feedback run(and still am), but I started school recently so that ate up more time than expected. I'll probably play the maps in batches of 5, then go after some of the WIPs. I'd like to see some more opinions from players outside the project too, so I'll probably bother some zandro survival people and so on.

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Risen3d seems to think this requires doom 2, not plutonia, renaming my plutonia iwad and pointing it to that works though - I take it this is a risen3d-only issue?

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invictius said:

Risen3d seems to think this requires doom 2, not plutonia, renaming my plutonia iwad and pointing it to that works though - I take it this is a risen3d-only issue?


I suppose. Can Risen3d run other PWADs that require either Plutonia or TNT IWAD? These WADs are so rare that I guess it's possible Risen3d developers maybe didn't even think of this occuring.

Try Plutonia 2, for example.

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Keyboard_Doomer said:

I suppose. Can Risen3d run other PWADs that require either Plutonia or TNT IWAD? These WADs are so rare that I guess it's possible Risen3d developers maybe didn't even think of this occuring.

Try Plutonia 2, for example.


It seems like it can't: "this map requires one of the final doom iwads to run correctly".

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Alright, EffinghamHuffnagel sent me his reworking of MAP30, I tweaked it some more and this is the result. Download Eternal Sleep.

There's difficulties and Co-op starts(not sure how the instadeath lines will function in Co-op though), and to top it all off you can actually kill the Icon! Props to EffHuff for coming up with the original idea for it, with alterations from me. Feedback is much obliged.

Also, I recall that there's 9 other unused maps floating around in the thread, including the one GRB and I made. Post which one of these maps you guys think should make the final cut and hopefully we can include it in the IdGames release.

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You are The Man! You added multiple layers on top of the things I changed. Outstanding! The additional Keys gets the player used to going back to the teleport hall in a much better way than just going back for Medikits like I had. Using the normal behavior of shooting Rockets at the Icon to open the switch is a much more active choice than just stepping off the teleport landing platform (the visual opening door cue on successful hit is also nice). I should have thought to put walls around the secret so you don't activate the Spawners. Thank you. And I love that all you get on the automap if you find the Computer Map is a little diamond-shaped box. Funny. Four things that I wasn't sure you were aware of:

---
In the SW corner of the SE teleport room I changed a section of A_REDROK to REDWALL as a hint for the lift. Since the lift is gone, that section should go back to being A-REDROK set at x+108.

The Medikit in the teleport hall is stacked. There are eight of them. I thought that was okay, since it's the only non-secret healing after the original Megasphere.

The line of Helmets are also each a stack of three. So on Easy, you get 3x13; on Medium, you get 2x13; on Hard, 1x13. Is that too much? Should the Easy-Medium tagged ones be Potions instead? So on Easy you get 2x13 Helmets and 1x13 Potions; on Medium, 1x13 of each; on Hard, just 1x13 Helmets? Again, it's the only non-secret armor after the original Megasphere.

There is an unknown object, type 32000, just off the map to the right of the teleport hall.

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Eventually, after a few times through, players will realize that they don't need to shoot Rockets at the Icon to open the switch; that's just instinct. Thank you for continuing my original idea - killing the Icon and winning the game using only your Pistol.

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LingtheDoomGuy said:

Just downloaded this; looks really great! I was wondering if maps 29 and 30 will be added?


With luck. :) On that note, here's the update for Eternal Sleep that fixes the patch of REDWALL and deletes the 3D Mode camera(for some reason 3D Mode strands you in the Abyss with this map). Still need recommendations on which map to add to the set. Also, if anyone feels like writing a short blurb about their map I can add it to the textfile à la Alien Vendetta and Congestion 1024.

I've never used "à la" in a sentence before. I think I did it right.

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Over the weekend I finished up my 1024 map.

Here's a finished Jungle Juice that I was working on for this project. If I ever make a sizable amount of good maps, I'll probably throw this in there and make a compilation out of my maps or whatever.

Map: Jungle Juice
Game: plutonia.wad
Bugs: There may be some; none that I know of
Format: Boom (removing infinite height actors might be a better experience)
Genre: This is a puzzle-ish map. Be warned.
Relevant Author Info: Two of my favorite maps are Chasm and Tricks-and-Traps.

If anyone wants to play the finished version, click here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56831507/Doom/Finished/JungleJuice-1024-v1.wad

Thank-you to all who worked on the Plutinya project.

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NoisyVelvet said:

Over the weekend I finished up my 1024 map.


I've spent the evening going through all the unused maps. I liked the first version of this map a lot, but I got stuck a couple of times and didn't know what to do next. I'll play this, finish my notes and post them.

Geez, it's 2:15. Tomorrow. I'll play this tomorrow and post my notes then.

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I don't think anyone's posted this yet: this is part 1 of a playthrough Tarnsman is doing on Twitch, with Alfonzo providing extra commentary. I like the bit where he hopes I didn't cram 600 monsters into MAP32. :P

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I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but some of the author names on the CWILVs are off center. Not a major thing, but would add a layer of polish if they were adjusted.

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Thank you, I did notice that. When I pasted the text onto the graphics I eyed it out instead of making precise measurements. I probably should have because I can't think of an easy way to fix it than to play all the maps with -nomonsters from start to finish, jotting down on a notepad how many pixels I gotta move the names over and in which direction, and then extract all the graphics and make the adjustments, then -nomonsters the whole thing again to check if it's better.

Also thank you Tarnsman and Alfonzo for your video playthrough :)

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Is there an easy way to center them? I've done the same as 40oz when trying to make the CWILV graphics (using the little block in Paint that represents the center). Problem is sometimes the graphics are an even amount of pixels, sometimes they're odd, which makes it further hard to exactly center it. Argh.

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Magnusblitz said:

Is there an easy way to center them? I've done the same as 40oz when trying to make the CWILV graphics (using the little block in Paint that represents the center). Problem is sometimes the graphics are an even amount of pixels, sometimes they're odd, which makes it further hard to exactly center it. Argh.


Yes. I mostly use an older version of Paint Shop Pro (because I was able to add all the id palettes). If you use the selection tool and select just the name, then copy and paste as new layer, it automatically centers the copy left to right and top to bottom. Select the move tool and arrow down until it's in place. If the name was really off center, there might be some leftover not covered. You can paint that out. I'll look at them and fix them after dinner.

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Unused maps
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Uncle80 - Slowness - Yeah, it does feel like a compressed, 1024, tribute/rip-off of Plutonia MAP12, "Speed". Not an "original" map, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Keyboard_Doomer was right about the Cyber - "The Cyber just feels kind of pointless. In Speed you have to kill him to get the red key, here he feels more like a moving decoration you have to keep an eye on from time to time. And I'm not sure if there's even enough ammo to kill him." There is, but why bother. He's more of an annoyance than a threat. KD also said you could get to the exit with an easy SR50 jump. I'm not sure how easy that is. I've never been able to master it. That would be an easy fix, anyway. The Cyber, not so easy. There's also some Imps near the Cyber. No idea why. They're less of a threat than the Cyber. Otherwise, with minor fixes, it could fit as MAP29. Although it might fit better as part of a separate project - taking all Plutonia and TNT maps and shrinking them to 1024. Between the two, there should be one megawad's worth.

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Obsidian - Artifice - Not bad. Lots of marble. I like the idea of just a 'Chain' map (Saw and Gun). This one would have to be placed near the beginning of the wad, or after a death exit before MAP10.

Missing Plutonia start pad. Exit pad isn't glowing. Sector tag 6, which drops the Red Key out of sight, is too big. Player can fall into it. I did.

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Miss Bubbles - untitled - Also a lower-number map, even with a Baron and two AVs. Start and exit pads aren't glowing. Problem with the skybox. Otherwise, I like it. Author withdrew map because she had no time to work on it any more.

http://i.imgur.com/ge87jbs.png

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Noisy Velvet - Jungle Juice - Interesting map. LOTS of shootable switches which release monsters or raise platforms and give access to higher "floors". It's like a 3D maze. I got lost, or rather stuck, a couple of times. Had no idea what to do next. Switches are in the open, but in out of the way locations. Obviously, I missed a couple. Eventually got to the same height as the exit, but couldn't figure out how to get there. Turns out it needed a multi-platform strafe-run. This map is nothing like any other map in this wad. I like it, but I don't think it fits here.

version 2 - Still got stuck looking for switches, but Not as badly. Telefragged the Mancubus that appeared later at the start spot. Exit was open and available and I was 11 monsters short of 100%. I guess I missed the right switch. A really good standalone level. Not for this wad.

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Count651 - Pitfall - Playable. Feels underdeveloped. Author gave up on it. Even too easy for MAP01.

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Fellowzdoomer - untitled - A one-room slaughermap. Survive until the walls around the exit lower. Eventually, a Cyber lowers with them. Unfortunately, the first time he lowered all the way into the pit around the exit. He could barely move and couldn't attack. So I punched him to death. Takes a long time without a Berserk. Also, you can get stuck in the pit yourself if you don't run at the exit. This is not a MAP29.

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Fellowzdoomer and Phml - untitled - Variation on a theme. Phml took the previous map concept and made a better one-room slaughtermap. It's still a one-room slaughtermap. Hit the switch and survive until the exit-blocking walls drop. Doesn't really fit.

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Joe-ilya - Celled - MAP30 - a big square room with a lift in the center. Hit the switch, ride the lift, pick one of three possible Icon choices. Pick the right one, you win; pick the wrong one, a voodoo doll picks up some stuff. There are two secrets. One is completely unintuitive; the other, I have no idea how to get; maybe an AV jump. Not really very interesting. Eternal Sleep is better.

This is my problem with most Icon maps; if it didn't have an Icon and Spawners, it would be just another slaughtermap. The previous two maps could be Icon maps. Instead of the dropping walls hiding the exit, they hide the Icon, or lower the Icon. Walls drop, SSG, you win. Don't even need Spawners. Actually, that would be a different take on an Icon map.

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GRB and Obsidian - Drowning Pool - in the most complete state to add to PL1024. Original map, challenging gameplay, no more bugs. The best choice for MAP29.

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Personally I thought Jungle Juice was quite a good map, but then again I'm a sucker for a good puzzley map. Maybe "No Rest for the Tiny" should be an actual thing, because it'd be a shame to waste good maps.

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Map01(Mt. Lazarev): Kind of works but doesn't look very good between the rough shapes and lack of attention to lighting, plus you get snagged on the tight, weird angles and sharp height changes everywhere. The archvile+revenant next to each other is a bad combo because they cant move, you basically cornercamp them to death. The run across the platforms in front of the 2 revenants could be a little better, as it stands the most danger you're in comes from how irritatingly bumpy moving around there is. The telefragged guy in the wall is funny, heh.

The mancubus that teleports in with the chaingunners up top is only dangerous if you stay and fight it, but it's easier to just jump down and run away from it, maybe make it a caco or 2 so it can chase you? That broken telepad is annoying to move over as well. The exit ambush is really easy to just skip entirely.

Map02: pending, accidentally pressed post.

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