5 college students rape female student at frat house in NJ

What are your thoughts on this? Should women carry pepper spray or firearms to defend themselves from being kidnapped/raped? I personally believe she might have had a better chance to defend herself with a firearm against 5 guys.

Keep in mind, New Jersey has strict concealed weapon laws (as well as owning handguns in general). Not many people are allowed to conceal carry firearms in the state of New Jersey. Tasers are also illegal in New Jersey.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2857152/Female-student-held-captive-darkened-William-Paterson-University-dorm-room-raped-five-men.html

Fraternities should be banned.

Since we can't rely on people not to rape one another women should carry guns. My cousin got pepper spray as a Christmas gift. Reading the instructions was pretty funny. Basically its a 50/50 chance it might splash back at you.

Bee spray works much better. Shoots 20 ft and its meant to kill things not blind them.

Holy shit how did I cut my finger typing?

Gez said:

Fraternities should be banned.

I'm guessing the fraternity's motto is Semper Niger.

I don't like the inferences being made here.

Here's some stuff for you to chew on:
http://www.nmcsap.org/statistics.html#cd
http://sapac.umich.edu/article/196
http://www.sarsonline.org/resources-stats/reports-laws-statics

Figure out how you can hand wave these off and then we'll continue down the ugly path this thread is on.

the_miano said:

GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahahaha... you're totally, ridiculously ignorant of the actual case and just want to advocate how everyone should carry weaponry.

Wouldn't the rapists have firearms as well, then? I mean, five guns vs. one.

Technician said:

Wouldn't the rapists have firearms as well, then? I mean, five guns vs. one.

From one of the sources Quasar posted: http://www.nmcsap.org/statistics.html#cd

"In rapes/sexual assaults involving strangers, weapons were known to be used in 20.3% of the incidents. Of these, 8.8% used a firearm (hand gun) and 11.5% used a knife. In rapes/sexual assaults involving nonstrangers, weapons were known to be used in 15% of the incidents. Of these, 4.2% used a firearm (hand gun); 5.4% used a knife or sharp object, and 2% used some other weapon."

@dew, concealed weaponry is often debated on whether or not it can be used to prevent rape. I want to hear more people's opinions on it. If you have any ideas on how woman can prevent rape, you may post them here.

In my opinion: the use of GUNS!!!!!!!!1111111ONEONEONEONETWO sounds like more of a practical solution for women to prevent rape rather than doing any one of these.

Maybe she should have had a concealed life alert button. If she can reach it she can press it and hopefully authorities could track it.

"Help, I've been raped and I can't get up!"

the_miano said:

doing any one of these.

In the comments section, Vomitus said:
No. I kill with my bare hands. I'm a veteran. I've killed many people. admittedly with just bare fists and/or a bullet to the head, usually both, in service of this nation. I would rather beat someone to death than shoot them. Guns are for cowards especially in any civilian population (it makes no sense). Murder takes a toll, a painful toll, at least you should work for it. You should, indeed, you must, feel pain as you kill. I realized that completely when I returned. I was relatively guilt-free in my head, I didn't kill any innocent person or let anyone suffer. Every one else in my unit was killed or have PTSD. now.

Mall ninja level 99.

The advantage when everyone has guns, is that you have a very strong incentive to shoot first before you get shot, instead of taking time to assess the situation, running the risk to get killed while you're trying to see if you're actually in danger.

This is how you get cops opening fire on twelve year olds. It really makes society a lot safer.

Of course, it goes both way. If you're a criminal and you know all your potential victims may pull up a gun against you, you have a strong incentive to get the drop on them and start your assault by shooting their arm or something.

And because of that, if you are a potential victim (hint: you are), then you have a strong incentive to avoid being shot by surprise by a lurking criminal by shooting every single person you see, because you never know who could be a criminal. After all, "there is no “typical profile”", so every profile is that of a potential rapist. Who's gonna shoot you because you're gonna shoot them.

GUNS!!!!!!!

Clonehunter said:

Maybe she should have had a concealed life alert button. If she can reach it she can press it and hopefully authorities could track it.

"Help, I've been raped and I can't get up!"

I'm dying!

I don't mind brutal doom but I'm really not into its surrounding community of fanboys that insist on playing everything with it and advocating that doom was meant to be this way or whatever. Not to mention its creator is a racist bigot.

wait this is the thread where we argue whatever is on our mind regardless of the context of the link in the op is about, right?

I swear, there should be a law against posting links to the Daily Fail as sources for news stories. It's only a step above posting Onion articles as fact, and a small step at that.

That said, I'd advocate pepper spray over firearms. Quicker, more convenient, easier to use without having to be an expert marksman, and you don't run the risk of your own gun ending up getting used against you. If you're getting mugged or raped or whatever, the person is probably already close enough that you're not gonna have time to grab the weapon, aim, and fire by the time you realize they're a threat. Had a couple of friends in college get mugged at knifepoint, and the thing I remember about that was, neither of them knew they were in any danger until the knife was at their backs - obviously it would've been very easy to escape or fight back against a person with a knife if you knew they had a knife at a distance, but that was the whole point - get close enough that the person can't run before making it clear you're a threat.

And that's a point I feel I keep having to emphasize - people who wish to do you harm take efforts to get close to you before they make their intentions clear, at which point your options are far more limited. It's not like you see a person coming at you from down the block and have time to prepare. They could be just walking down the street, not acting suspiciously at all - until the moment after they pass you when they spin around and put a weapon up to you. That's how the knife attacks went. You make sure the person is cornered and can't run before you even begin to do anything suspicious. That means guns can oftentimes be more of a liability than a safety measure.

Peperspray is also good for casually spraying hippies on campus.

the_miano said:

What are your thoughts on this? Should women carry pepper spray or firearms to defend themselves from being kidnapped/raped?

The bleeding heart side of me screams "WHY DONT WE JUST TEACH OUR BOYS NOT TO FUCKING RAPE"

but the neo-con side of me says "ARM OUR WOMEN TO THE TEETH, LET GOD SORT THE RAPISTS OUT"

Even if they are taught, it wont stop people from doing it so arming woman would be better(but not too much or there would be mass feminist riots on the streets)

Nomad said:

"WHY DONT WE JUST TEACH OUR BOYS NOT TO FUCKING RAPE"

Because sick fucks are sick fucks.

No matter how much you tell a sick fuck to stop being a sick fuck they will always be a sick fuck and no amount of telling them not to will change that (even extreme punishment can't change them, some people are beyond saving).

That is not always the case. Occasionally, a regular intoxicated male might be tempted to have intercourse with a noncompliant intoxicated female due to circumstantial pressures and the female eventually stops resisting the act. This does not mean the male is a predator or sex offender. There are gray areas; that is entirely the point I am making here.

TheCupboard said:

This does not mean the male is a predator or sex offender. There are gray areas; that is entirely the point I am making here.

Not anymore. Search the new California consent law. The reason rape statistics are flying through the roof is becasue the grey area no long exists.

Nomad said:

"WHY DONT WE JUST TEACH OUR BOYS NOT TO FUCKING RAPE"

Why don't we teach boys not to steal or murder? The fact is people get off on power, the hunt, etc.

The only thing to teach boys is women pretty much have the authority to retract consent under most circumstance after intercourse. Again, the California consent law tries to enforce multiple consents per intercourse. As long as a drop of alcohol touches a women's tongue, she can pretty much void any consent she may have given, even if not inebriated. Also, with stuff such as emotional coercion, sex without commitment, etc. she can, again, retract consent. It can be very complicated. The shit I'm reading on campus is very off putting.

Sorry I don't give a shit about California, just the federal law.

Clonehunter said:

Maybe she should have had a concealed life alert button. If she can reach it she can press it and hopefully authorities could track it.

"Help, I've been raped and I can't get up!"

Hahahaahahahahaha

dew said:

Mall ninja level 99.

Keyboard warrior level 9000

Nomad said:

The bleeding heart side of me screams "WHY DONT WE JUST TEACH OUR BOYS NOT TO FUCKING RAPE"

but the neo-con side of me says "ARM OUR WOMEN TO THE TEETH, LET GOD SORT THE RAPISTS OUT"

Here is a crazy idea: Why not do both?

TheCupboard said:

Sorry I don't give a shit about California, just the federal law.

You may beat jail, but you won't beat the news and get back into collage.

The case pro guns can be argued in a simple, yet effective manner, by staging a rape simulation with the aid of advanced computer graphics technology:

1. Make a Doom map where Doomguy is pitted all alone and unarmed in a room with 5 imps. Use a DEH patch to take away his pistol and ammo.
   
2. Try to kill the 5 imps before they tear you a new one with your bare fists (actually, even the fist should be depowered, as brass knuckles are illegal, lol).
   
3. It's kinda hard, huh?
   
4. Now try again, by giving back Doomguy his pistol ammo.
   
5. ????
   
6. Profit!!!!
   

Technician said:

Why don't we teach boys not to steal or murder? The fact is people get off on power, the hunt, etc.

Then why doesn't every country have the same violent crime rates, if violent behavior is so ingrained in our genes?

Maes said:

????

That's the part in which Doomguy still dies, assuming this is a cornered scenario, as it would be in a real life ambush. It takes 4-9 shots on average to kill an imp. It takes 5-12 slashes to kill Doomguy. He wouldn't stand a chance. Furthermore that DEH should be boosting imp movement speed to Doomguy's, unless you propose the best rape prevention is sr50ing away from the group of arthritic pensioners attacking you.

You need to try more to mock rape.

dew said:

That's the part in which Doomguy still dies, assuming this is a cornered scenario, as it would be in a real life ambush.

Perhaps I should have said "a small room with no exits". The situation at the end of E1M8 should give the idea, except that the level doesn't end when you go below 11% health (unless you consider the assailants emptying their load inside you and then abandoning you as "finishing the level").

Obviously it's not rape sim if you can SR50 or wallrun in a large, empty NUTS.WAD-sized area, unless you really suck at the controls ;-)

But yeah, with just a pistol and starting 5 imps almost immediately within melee range of you, there's little room for surviving, unless you manage to gun down one ASAP and gain some movement space (which would make for an interesting survival map concept, BTW). But that's the point of the simulation: IRL, if you are surrounded at point blank with 5 tough motherfuckers who don't mind getting hurt or dying, you're almost certainly fucked unless you're even more of a tough SOB yourself.

If you want to further simulate the panic and tension of a real rape/mugging as well as physical strength disparity between a woman and 5 niggers (or niggaz, depending on whether they have gold chains or not, according to 2PAC), replace the imps with demons/spectres (preferably in a dark room), or even better, with knights/barons.

Erm. I think you'd use the gun more as a method of intimidation than ya know, fucking shooting everyone in the room.

the correct solution would have been to read the description in the text file: "this is a map I made in 60 seconds where youre trapped in a room with 5 imps"

the comments "got raped immediately every time 0/5"

and doomworld posts describing similar scenarios that suck, and make an informed decision not to play the wad.

When you jump in the ocean, theres a likelihood you can get attacked by sharks or by sting rays or by box jellyfish. It doesn't always happen, and it might not even be likely. But you have to be aware of the possibility. We don't need laws to protect your right to swim in the ocean. Men don't need to be taught that rape is bad. You know its bad without being told its bad because of the very nature of what it is.

for this particular circumstance, this girl probably went to a party without knowing who was going to be there and not knowing when she was going home or who she was going home with. It was a pretty dumb thing to do. I'm not saying she deserved it, because she may simply have family and friends that are too politically correct to tell her that if you're meeting up with 5 black guys by yourself in a dark room, you're probably about to get fucking raped. I know beautiful women who live in the inner city, go to bars and parties, get drunk often, never carry weapons and come home safely every time. I couldn't get them to publish a universally acceptable and factual method without stereotypes and bigotry, but it works. Get information, have a plan, stick to it.

the_miano said:

What are your thoughts on this? Should women carry pepper spray or firearms to defend themselves from being kidnapped/raped? I personally believe she might have had a better chance to defend herself with a firearm against 5 guys.

You could alternatively make rape legal, that would certainly reduce yearly statistics of reported sexual offenses quite notably. There, no need for them filthy guns n' shizzle.

What?! Did they rape her... at a dark room?! They could do that home, jizz.