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Do you use references when mapping?

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When I play through certain megawads, I tend to notice some sort of formula or similar theme to quite a few of them, especially those made by the same mappers.

I myself have been playing Doom for a long time and seldom touched a map editor, fearful that what I'd make would be worse than a '94 map.

So my big question to you mappers is this:

Do you look to any previously made maps for reference?

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Yes, unavoidably so. But I try to keep in mind that originality is always highly preferred. When I play, I'm often un-impressed by seeing remakes, homages and tributes to the same old designs again and again and again and again. But I know that it's hard to create something original and good at the same time, I'm pretty unable to do so myself.

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I'd have to say no. Maybe at a subconscious level, but I've certainly never intentionally set out to mimic something I've seen in another map. Though, that might be why my maps tend rely more on technical gimmicks than aesthetics (the UDS is the only reference I use).

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Back when I was a newbie, I mimicked alot of things from more experienced mappers. Some of the things were very basic just so I could understand how certain things worked. Other times it was because I just thought it was an awesome idea and I wanted it in my map :) It was all good training. A few of them still lurk in my designs, but nowadays I think I've settled on my own style and I never intentionally try to reference any existing work, be it my own or from anyone else.

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While mapping, I constantly steal texturing themes, area ideas, enemy placement and so on from other maps. And if I can't decide whether some part of my level is good or not, I just think like: "Well, did some other cool wads do this? Oh right, Marswar from 1995 did it, so it must be good and I don't need to question it, thank god".

Never really had any my own ideas aside from "I want to make a cool megawad lol!". Almost all of my maps started as attempts at making a megawad similar to some wad I played.

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I use references most of the time, but rarely from other doom maps. Usually stuff from other games, and mostly from pictures.

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Many of my maps are still pastiches of design and gameplay elements from existing maps I like. My hope is that these influences and my own vision will synthesize into my own style as I gain experience, which I suppose I still don't have that much of. This is something I think about actually...when I feel like my mapping process is either stuck or on autopilot, do I look to more experienced people's work for inspiration? Do I go out into the real world, and try to capture things that impress me? Or do I wait for some idea to emerge out of the ether, and see how I can make it work? All three have been helpful in certain cases. Of course, how much any idea ever truly comes "out of the ether" is debatable.

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Memfis said:

While mapping, I constantly steal texturing themes, area ideas, enemy placement and so on from other maps. And if I can't decide whether some part of my level is good or not, I just think like: "Well, did some other cool wads do this? Oh right, Marswar from 1995 did it, so it must be good and I don't need to question it, thank god".

Never really had any my own ideas aside from "I want to make a cool megawad lol!". Almost all of my maps started as attempts at making a megawad similar to some wad I played.


Sorry, but I find that hard to believe. I think you need to work on your self-esteem and to stop lying to us. You don't win a Cacoward (or is it more?) and get a big fanbase by being unoriginal and a copycat.

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As with any other "do you do 'x' when mapping?" question, I have to answer, "sometimes." I'll get cool ideas from other maps and then try and sneak them in, though generally it's more of a base to go Xaser-crazy with it rather than an actual copy or whatnot.

More lately, though, I tend to draw inspiration from other games, particularly Dark Souls (2). That series has some kickass design and I keep subconsciously "referencing" it in my latest batch of mapping.

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If I do it's mostly subconscious although I have occasionally taken inspiration from IWAD levels, E1M2, E3M2, Doom 2 MAP10 and Plutonia MAP29 being examples I can think of right now. I don't usually take inspiration for PWADs because I don't really know them well enough for them to occur to me I don't think. Sometimes I reference parts of my own levels if I think I could either execute something better or in an interestingly different way.

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If you start mapping with no inspiration then you are out of material even before you start.

I keep references handy and use them frequently. But only infrequently to look at some other map, and then only to discover some mapping trick.

I wrote reference works that distill what I want to remember. It is much faster to search a text file, than search a hundred saved wads, and the information is in a usable format. When I discover something important, I make a note, or add a description of it to the most appropriate reference text file.

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In regards to something as complex and amorphous as gameplay, literally 'stealing' something from something is highly unlikely. Players notice repetition from within a map but few people recognize every time in any wad where they activated a trap closet with revenants in it.

how cynical do you have to be?

"pssshhh map21 nirvana did it. NOT ENTERTAINED."

as far as references go, I have many text files and documents loaded with excerpts copypasted from the unofficial wad designers handbook, doom wiki, posts on this forum that I liked, and play tester feedback both for my wads and for wads I liked.

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I can't say I reference anything while making my maps, it usually just happens as I go.

Sometimes I will come here to ask help on something I am stuck on...but that is for technical apects rather than for detail and features.

But I never deliberatly copy other WADs or anything.

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Chris Hansen said:

You don't win a Cacoward (or is it more?) and get a big fanbase by being unoriginal and a copycat.

Ppl just don't notice... You can steal a lot without getting caught in Doom. Just take a room, mirror it, put a column in the center and that's it. See how only now the DTWID guys started talking about Plutonia ripping off other iwads all the time.

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Your dystopian and pessimistic attitude towards everything Doom is quite extraordinary, Memfis. I'm surprised you are still active in this community.

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Chris Hansen said:

I'm surprised you are still active in this community.

But we're all so glad he's still here :)

As others have said, I often get inspration from various scenes/imagery, both in and out of Doom itself. I should use custom textures more often than I do, I often limit my vision by shoehorning it into the stock texture set, and I don't even know why I do it. It's an old habit I'll be trying to break from here on out (assuming I release any more wads, that is.)

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I don't use references, but I see my behavior as a bad habit.

Been trying to pay more conscious attention to the fine details of great level design, rather than just big picture stuff. Stopping as I play to pull out the mental ruler, looking closely at shapes, dimensions and texture combinations. This helps, but it's still not enough.

Recently I've started taking screenshots of areas of interest in video games, and deconstructing them. I ought to annotate stuff rather than let it fade away in my mind, but I'm lazy. Still, this is helpful as is. Mimicking cool architecture from talented artists gives me better results in minutes than hours of Doom Builder experimentation on my own.

I can get concerns about originality or stealing content, but I'm on the side that believes everything is derivative to an extent. If you look at artists, they study anatomy and light physics. Look at architects, they plan according to specs and necessary constraints. Either group makes ample use of appropriate reference material, and Doom levels are visuals + layout.

Don't get me wrong, more power to those of you who can wing it. There's something to be said for starting from scratch as an extensive learning experience, too. Still, the formalization of design can be another tool for innovation. It lets you use a common base as a stepping stone to various things, rather than reinventing the wheel every time.

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