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dg93

Massacre in Paris - Islamic Extremists Kill At least 12

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Been all over the news. Fucking bastards, they really gotta learn to let this "Draw Prophet Muhammad and Die like Western Pig" shit go. Plenty of cartoonists parody gods and religions all the time, and for the most part, you don't see a bunch of irate Catholics burning down the Onion headquarters shouting "In the name of Mary mother of Jesus I blow your brains out for drawing a questionable image of Jesus being in the same room as that heathen Obama! And you're going to Hell, unlike me, who will be absolved of my righteous sinning by giving Father Hector a buck forty-nine and a confession." But then again, maybe these guys' priest promised them more virgins per kill or something. Unfortunately it's probably a lie and they're getting gypped. Not that I'm at all sorry for them. Fuckin' tragedy, RIP cartoonists. Hope they catch anyone who escaped soon.

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Shame on the white house for "Questioning the judgment" of the cartoonists. Its called freedom of speech, you spineless cowards! Maybe if they lived in the middle east, and tried to make this cartoon, I would question their judgment. But in a free liberal democracy, they shouldn't have to question their fucking judgment to make a cartoon.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/conncarroll/2015/01/07/white-house-questioned-judgment-of-french-magazine-attacked-by-terrorists-n1939747


Let's change the scenario up, to illustrate how much of a horrible statement this is from the white house.

Suppose a pro-gay newspaper was targeted and attacked by far-right extremists for publishing something that offended them. Would it be appropriate to say, "well, they should have thought about what they were doing".

Suppose a woman was raped, and the cops said, "well we question her judgment for wearing that short skirt."

The authorities are supposed to protect our rights, and jail the malcontents. Not make offensively normative statements that blame the victim.

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Technician said:
image


That's nuts.

I think it's hypocritical that the white house would say that "Not releasing the Interview was a bad call by Sony." despite a nation-state declaring it an act of war. Yet they question the judgment of the cartoonists.

I thought it was great that Obama made that sentiment about the interview. But statements like this in regards to the attack prove that he doesn't really give a fuck about inalienable rights.

How about acting more like the LEADER of the FREE world, Obama? Part of that is vocalizing your support for freedom.

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Islam is not as old as Christianity. Because of that, we are living through another Crusade/Inquisition, and it absolutely cannot be tolerated. However, genociding Muslims would be a horrific act of violence that would solve nothing. I can't think of any way we can remedy this.

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Great, get upset over comic, decide to kill everyone who was any way related to that. Religion of peace? Absolutely

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GoatLord said:

Islam is not as old as Christianity. Because of that, we are living through another Crusade/Inquisition


No.

Religions aren't biological organisms. You can't say "oh, it's just Islam going into its adolescence crisis, it'll grow out of it".

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At least two of the victims were probably muslims :
- Ahmed Merabet, 42, police officer
- Mustapha Ourrad, editor

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soner du said:

At least two of the victims were probably muslims :
- Ahmed Merabet, 42, police officer
- Mustapha Ourrad, editor


Obviously not good Muslims, if they came to serve the "infidels" in those ways.

One of the best comments I ever read about Islam, is that it's a dangerous political expansionism agenda masquerading as a religion, and that unlike even the most extreme ones produced by the West (such as Nazism), discussion with a Muslim over matters of politics by using arguments is impossible, because for a Muslim politics is just a series of dogmatic truths.

He won't try to convince you that his position is right and yours is wrong by using arguments, he simply will state that it is right because it's written in his Holy Book and confirmed by various Fetwas, and that yours is wrong simply because it's not, whereas even a Nazi will at least try to argue some of the perceived advantages of his beliefs, and some of the disadvantages of yours (e.g. "Democracy is fallacious because it wrongly assumes we're all actually equal"). A Muslim won't even bother with that: "Democracy is wrong because it's not in the Qu'ran, period.".

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Funny thing about Islam, It's made up of 1.6 billion people who all want to destroy democracy and the west but only a small fraction seem to ever actually do anything about it.

I guess they're mostly lazy?

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Maes said:

One of the best comments I ever read about Islam, is that it's a dangerous political expansionism agenda masquerading as a religion, and that unlike even the most extreme ones produced by the West (such as Nazism), discussion with a Muslim over matters of politics by using arguments is impossible, because for a Muslim politics is just a series of dogmatic truths.

That might be true of radicalized converts.

Most Muslims are Muslim because they're born in a Muslim culture. They don't care about any political expansionism agenda any more than the average Christian cares about going to heathen lands to evangelize.

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Charlie Hebdo was one of the last bastions of free speech in France. We all knew it was going to happen to them sooner or later, allah ackbar and all, and those who spoke up were told they were "racists" for even suggesting it might happen. Now it happened. Those who shouted islamophobia haven't even missed a step, they're condemning a hypothetical raise in the polls for our far right party before the bodies of the cartoonists are even cold.

It's sad. Go to American communities and you will see commiseration for the families, support for free speech with their own spin on prophet comics, concerted denouncement of the old white flag joke, praising the French spirit, the courage of the policemen. Go to French communities and you will see questions on the "true" affiliation of the shooters, complaints about the police's reaction time, condemnations of the Far Right party for their hypothetical raise in polls, bashing the unwashed masses for supposedly dividing the topic between bigots and jihadists. In American communities you will see debates going back and forth on the role of Islam in this attack and the place of Islam in society as a whole. In French communities bringing up the topic at all will get you labeled an islamophobe and banned on the spot.

Free speech is well and truly dead in France. Not killed by AK47s in the streets, but by ideologues and politicians promoting this culture of vitriol, self-loathing, contempt and fear.

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Gez said:

Most Muslims are Muslim because they're born in a Muslim culture.


That might be true for "moderate" Muslims, which BTW are also considered legitimate targets by "true" Muslims, for not being as hardcore as they should.

Gez said:

They don't care about any political expansionism agenda any more than the average Christian cares about going to heathen lands to evangelize.


With the difference that for Islam, the only acceptable form of Law is Sharia, and the only acceptable form of State is the Islamic Caliphate. OK, so "moderate" Muslims can probably live without them, but it's not the moderate kind of Islam that's currently growing.

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Gez said:

No.

Religions aren't biological organisms. You can't say "oh, it's just Islam going into its adolescence crisis, it'll grow out of it".


Institutions are subject to social evolution.

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GoatLord said:

Institutions are subject to social evolution.


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GoatLord said:

Institutions are subject to social evolution.


Which doesn't go by fixed-length stages. Social evolution depends on society.

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Gez said:

Which doesn't go by fixed-length stages. Social evolution depends on society.


The problem is that Islam as a set of values promotes stagnation and opposes change, not unlike the way the (quintessentially Christian) Amish do. With the difference that unlike the Amish, the radical Muslims do not live in self-isolation in their small little quaint villages building barns, but have an agenda of either making everybody share their values, or destroy them if they don't.

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Well, that's yet another instance of the "You're free to say anything you want as long as it doesn't offend X" (but then you aren't really free to say it, are you?) or "Just because you can do/say something, doesn't mean that you should" (ditto) contradictions/fallacies.

That being said, I know very well that Greece is guilty of the very same thing.

Interpretation: sure, we're a modern and tolerant society, but if your behavior is deemed provocative by certain of our outstanding (?) pious citizens, enough for them to decide to hand your ass to you, we won't intervene, because, you know, being "free" to present your play (Corpus Christi) doesn't mean that you should actually do so. At least not if you are not ready to crack some skulls yourself.

In my book, getting your ass handed to you because somebody disagreed with you (and justifying it) is the exact opposite of "freedom of expression", and being able to express yourself only if you have a bunch of thugs "ready to crack some skulls" on your behalf is pure fascism. Whatever happened to "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ? (PROTIP: that's totally not how Islam works, BTW).

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Kontra Kommando said:

Suppose a woman was raped, and the cops said, "well we question her judgment for wearing that short skirt."


Honestly, I think this is a bad example, because that IS bad judgement depending on where the women is. I mean obviously rape is never ok, but do people really think it's safe taking a trip down into a dark alley during the middle of the night dressed like a porn star? People should be free to wear whatever they want, but they should also learn risk management. Rapists will not stop exiting just because women have the freedom to wear what they want.

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You might have a point if rapists used dress as a criteria. They don't, except perhaps the ones who use rape as a punishment for doing anything outside the rules they want to maintain for people in their sphere. Those guys would just as likely rape a woman dressed like an astronaut as a porn star, though.

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hardcore_gamer said:

Honestly, I think this is a bad example, because that IS bad judgement depending on where the women is. I mean obviously rape is never ok, but do people really think it's safe taking a trip down into a dark alley during the middle of the night dressed like a porn star? People should be free to wear whatever they want, but they should also learn risk management. Rapists will not stop exiting just because women have the freedom to wear what they want.

...seriously?

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Extremists man, what sends somebody over the edge to the point where they indiscriminately kill people over shitty little satirical cartoons?

Maybe they are born like the fucked up backwards ass dregs that they are, maybe it has something to do with their fucked lives being dictated by some "holy" book that pretty much has multiple paragraphs (possibly even pages or even chapters) dedicated to reasons why you should kill other people because of race, religion and sex that is further enforced by a bunch of wackos with guns and swords who would kill their own mother if she showed an ankle (Kinda like Mein Kampf but more fucked up).

Maybe, just maybe, human kind is just fucked up to the point of no return.

Maybe.

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