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hardcore_gamer

Cracked defends Pedophilia

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http://www.cracked.com/article_20981_5-ways-were-making-pedophilia-worse.html

I knew cracked has been pretty bad with it's political and social articles but wow.

I really love this bit:

"Weirdly enough, while we (correctly) vilify people who diddle kids as the predators they are, basically no one is willing to take the time to help pedophiles who don't want to do that. Which is nuts, because that would, you know, save freaking children from being victimized."

That's right, we are bad people because we don't want to help the "good" pedos from not molesting children. The guy then goes on claim that pedos should be treated like alcoholics and be helped back into society.

I think the biggest problem with many of the arguments used in the article is that the person talks about pedos like they are basically children who are not able to control or take responsibility for them self's and that we are obligated to help them as a result. What do you think about the article?

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hardcore_gamer said:

The guy then goes on claim that pedos should be treated like alcoholics and be helped back into society.


Yeah, how very dare he insinuate that those lowlife deviants are in any way curable? They shoud be all castrated by using two bricks to cancel their deviant genes from existence, while making sure they suffer!

Please, think of the children.

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Marnetmar said:

Arguing for rehabilitation is defending pedophilia?


If you have so little self-control that you can't stop yourself from harming children without outside intervention then you are not somebody that should be kept free. Comparing this to alcoholism is bullshit.

Maes said:

Yeah, how very dare he insinuate that those lowlife deviants are in any way curable?


How can you "cure" pedophilia anymore so than we can "cure" homosexuality? By putting people on meds? And if these people stop taking them for some reason?

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hardcore_gamer said:

How can you "cure" pedophilia anymore so than we can "cure" homosexuality? By putting people on meds? And if these people stop taking them for some reason?


You're right, better take no chances and bring back Aktion T4. Society as a whole will be better off without them.

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Kudos to Cracked for taking a stand in one of the deepest piles of shit they could.

As for curing things, sometimes people just change or grow out of it... if not grow into it. Others never change. This goes for any habit or preference.

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Linguica said:

I'm confused, are you advocating imprisoning people for thoughtcrime, or what?


No, I am pointing out the insanity of trying to depict these people as some kind of victims. You need to keep it in mind that the article was talking about people that according to the article author, might molest children if left alone. Not people who merely feel attracted to kids in a sexual sense, but don't in any way act on their urges.

If somebody has some kind of sick fetish but doesn't act on it, I don't care. Whatever floats your boat as long as nobody gets harmed. But the article isn't talking about those kinds of people. Or at least not only about those kind of people. It's talking about people who actually have the desire and the will to do something if left to their own devices, and the article talks about them in a sympathetic manner by treating them as if they were just innocent patients not in control of their own actions.

Maes said:

You're right, better take no chances and bring back Aktion T4. Society as a whole will be better off without them.


I honestly could give less of a fuck if every person who has ever molested a child were gassed to death. That goes to for people who enjoy child porn but haven't molested kids personally.

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hardcore_gamer said:

If somebody has some kind of sick fetish but doesn't act on it, I don't care. Whatever floats your boat as long as nobody get's harmed.


Incidentally, the "nobody was harmed" argument has been used in court by defending pedophiles, and sometimes even successfully, the implication being ofc that the molested kids were little faggots that were asking for it, so how could there be harm?

There was a particularly infamous case in Greece, ca 1980-1981, in a small village of the Pelloponese, where practically every child in the village has been fucked again and again by pretty much everybody in its clan, as part of some old bucolic tradition and point of view on "elder-young" relationship. The final outcome was (I think) a mass absolution, and the case has been hidden under the carpet so well that it's hard to track down any data on it. The village's name is "Douneika". If you want to do the research yourself, be my guest.

However, in this case, the fact that the defendants were numerous and belonged to closely-knit clans with political connections might have played a role. kinda hard to isolate all of them as "sick monsters", like you can do with a random urban pedophile.

Speaking of old traditions....at least in the East, there has always been a strong tradition of total dominance of an apprentice, acolyte or recruit by part of his master/teacher, including sexual domination. To be fair though, this kind of "initiation pedophilia" targetted more what you'd call an "ephebus", an age range starting from late pre-pubescence to middle-late puberty, not infants, which also brings about the concept of "age of consent".

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hardcore_gamer said:

No, I am pointing out the insanity of trying to depict these people as some kind of victims. You need to keep it in mind that the article was talking about people that according to the article author, might molest children if left alone. Not people who merely feel attracted to kids in a sexual sense, but don't in any way act on their urges.

You're only pointing out your complete lack of empathy with a fellow human being. They need help so they don't fall to their dark urges... before they actually do. What is so hard to understand about that? If they get help, they can live a full life within the society and less kids get preyed upon. Any sane person sees the win-win case here.

If somebody has some kind of sick fetish but doesn't act on it, I don't care. Whatever floats your boat as long as nobody gets harmed. But the article isn't talking about those kinds of people. Or at least not only about those kind of people. It's talking about people who actually have the desire and the will to do something if left to their own devices, and the article talks about them in a sympathetic manner by treating them as if they were just innocent patients not in control of their own actions.

Fetishes are urges. Urges slowly creep in on you and the worst case scenario is to let someone alone so they gradually fall more and more to their asocial desires. What exactly would you do with paedophiles? I see some frothing outrage, but no solution.

I honestly could give less of a fuck if every person who has ever molested a child were gassed to death. That goes to for people who enjoy child porn but haven't molested kids personally.

There we go. Your assburgers is showing, you vile little monster with faulty genes. Your gas chamber is right next door to the pedos.

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dew said:

There we go. Your assburgers is showing, you vile little monster with faulty genes. Your gas chamber is right next door to the pedos.


Oh cmon. Can't we at least be a bit humane and give him the option of the two bricks?

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As long as he's forbidden to procreate, I guess us healthy perfect people can tolerate him. Back of the bus though, no exceptions.

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dew said:

You're only pointing out your complete lack of empathy with a fellow human being. They need help so they don't fall to their dark urges... before they actually do. What is so hard to understand about that?


What is so hard to understand about this thing called personal fucking responsibility? People don't molest by mistake. By using the term "so they don't fall to their dark urges" you imply that they are somehow not in control. That this shit "just happens". It's the same bullshit argument people use to defend alcoholics who can't stop drinking. "Well of course he can't stop, it's a decease so he has no choice!". It's total garbage.

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hardcore_gamer said:

"Well of course he can't stop, it's a decease so he has no choice!"


FTFY. Fits better with your Endlösung too, don't you think? Please, think of the children.

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hardcore_gamer said:

What is so hard to understand about this thing called personal fucking responsibility?

Is it not personally responsible to seek help if they know they have a problem?

hardcore_gamer said:

By using the term "so they don't fall to their dark urges" you imply that they are somehow not in control. That this shit "just happens".

If you have a deterministic view of the universe, everything is the mere product of cause and effect. :P

On a more serious note, human psychology is far more complex than you make it out to be. Humans only have some control over their actions, not absolute. Some are better at controlling themselves than others.

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Do you have a total problem with understanding human beings? People aren't always in control of their actions, and this is the same reason we don't just jail or murder alcoholics.

That being said, I'm presently not entirely convinced it's a disease. I definitely don't want to see children (under the age of consent) being used sexually, but society does treat pedophilia like it did homosexuality in the 1950s, and it makes me hesitant to call any hard opinions about it.

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Maes said:

Oh cmon. Can't we at least be a bit humane and give him the option of the two bricks?


I'm for this Maes. I'm sure there are better methods, but hey two bricks works. I remember interviews with pedos saying castration was the solution or whatever the proper term is to having genitalia removed. I wonder how it works for female pedos though. Can't really brick them I guess.

As for calling it a pedophelia, alcoholism or anything else a disease... they are a dis-ease just because the word itself is a broad generalization.

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chungy said:

Do you have a total problem with understanding human beings?


He might, as he was diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD, but that's no excuse, by his own set of values:

hardcore_gamer said:

It's the same bullshit argument people use to defend alcoholics who can't stop drinking. "Well of course he can't stop, it's a decease so he has no choice!". It's total garbage.


Can you read yourself, hardcore_gamer? You gotta control yourself harder and understand humans better, in order to post less disturbing shit! No cop-outs, no excuses.

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hardcore_gamer said:

What is so hard to understand about this thing called personal fucking responsibility? People don't molest by mistake. By using the term "so they don't fall to their dark urges" you imply that they are somehow not in control. That this shit "just happens".

They are in control until they aren't. The urge is always with them and even people who lived a virtuous life may give in to it when opportunity strikes (say, a relative, the classic pedo uncle) or when they feed it by looking at pictures, then movies, then real kids. They have no chance of legally getting what they want, so it's driving them beyond the edge. They're deviant and the deviation is harmful to society (unlike many tolerated, harmless deviations), but that doesn't mean they're to be treated as subhuman trash before they even commit anything wrong.

It's the same bullshit argument people use to defend alcoholics who can't stop drinking. "Well of course he can't stop, it's a decease so he has no choice!". It's total garbage.

Comparing this to alcoholism is bullshit.

Heh.

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I am detecting a real lack of empathy here. Do keep in mind the purpose of punishment is to (mostly) induce change within the punished criminal and to set an example for other potential criminals. To advocate for a no-tolerance approach to anyone with paedophilia, both exercising and non-exercising, is just plain wrong. Paedophilia is probably no different to psychopathy, it is an affective disorder, not something that can be brought up by sheer volition. So by the same token, basically telling a psychopath to die and go to hell because they can't change and learn to feel and perceive moral responses and emotions is ridiculous and counterproductive.

Philosophically speaking, addiction is not too different from psychopathy. It's not like they're truly enjoying the experience of addiction, they are chemically and psychologically compelled to feed their destructive habits. They need to be met with compassion and sheer beneficence if they are to change for the better.

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chungy said:

That being said, I'm presently not entirely convinced it's a disease. I definitely don't want to see children (under the age of consent) being used sexually, but society does treat pedophilia like it did homosexuality in the 1950s, and it makes me hesitant to call any hard opinions about it.

As far as I understand it, that's exactly the case. Paedophiles are born that way and cannot be cured or rewired. You can only supress the sexual drive, but that brings up other moral questions. My country advocates voluntary chemical castration for violent sex offenders and I think it gets international criticism for it, because it leads to unavoidable changes in physique and character, but I guess it's not all bad if it destroys the inner demons. After all, healthy people do worse stuff to their bodies and chemical treatment or operations are wildly accepted for say transexuals.

The opposite approach I've seen discussed by Czech sexuologists is to give already existing child porn to paedophiles in a controlled fashion. The logic goes that the damage is already done and they'd look for it on their own otherwise, feeding child abuse market perpetually. The counter-argument is pretty simple: slippery slope. I can see the pros and cons of both the extreme approaches, but it's tough to have an unbiased opinion. As you said, it's a pretty heavy topic and people tend to operate on knee-jerk reactions alone.

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Maes said:

Can you read yourself, hardcore_gamer? You gotta control yourself harder and understand humans better, in order to post less disturbing shit! No cop-outs, no excuses.


The fact that alcoholism and ADHD are both deceases does not make them work the same way. ADHD is a problem with maintaining attention that just happens subconsciously. There is no control involved. By comparison, alcoholism may introduce a strong craving for alcohol, but you still need to make the actual conscious decision to pick up the bottle and start drinking. In a similar way, child molesting doesn't happen subconsciously either. You don't subconsciously undress a child and start having sex with it. It requires intentional planning. ADHD doesn't work that way. So your argument doesn't hold up.

dew said:

They are in control until they aren't.


You can defend literally any action using this argument.

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Sometimes compassion needs some tough love. Its okay you're pedo *hug* now baby sit my kids. That way you'll get over your addictions when you realize kids aren't sex objects and you're just losers with no better options. You only want kids because that's all you can get. Maybe you don't want to grow up and that's why you lust after kidz. Why have tough love when you can have a girl scout cookie and some respect for your disease? We understand you now. Thank you Cracked. Known for your humor and satire you've fully explained a tender situation. With help we can all learn to get you the help you need. Perhaps a government program can help us all understand. We can teach kids in school how pedo-ism is a disease.

Nah fuck it. If you don't have the intestinal fortitude to kick your addictions, why should we help you? Because you're weak and lazy and can't do something about it yourself? Why do we as a society need to pick up the slack for our second weakest members that pray on our first weakest members?

Maes, get your bricks. I'm with you. Wanna know why I still believe in guns? A 5 year old can still defend themselves against a 6' tall predator trying to touch them or anyone else in the family.

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hardcore_gamer said:

deceases

HOLY SHIT

IT'S DISEASE
NOT DECEASE

GET YO SHIT RIGHT SON

(wow i am make quality posts)

hardcore_gamer said:

ADHD is a problem with maintaining attention that just happens subconsciously. There is no control involved. By comparison, alcoholism may introduce a strong craving for alcohol, but you still need to make the actual conscious decision to pick up the bottle and start drinking.

Just because they're deliberately performing an action doesn't mean they're any more in control. For some people, their psychology won't let them stop once they "get into it". It's not rational, but it's how the human mind works.

hardcore_gamer said:

You can defend literally any action using this argument.

Not defend, explain.

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hardcore_gamer said:

The fact that alcoholism and ADHD are both deceases does not make them work the same way. ADHD is a problem with maintaining attention that just happens subconsciously. There is no control involved. By comparison, alcoholism may introduce a strong craving for alcohol, but you still need to make the actual conscious decision to pick up the bottle and start drinking. In a similar way, child molesting doesn't not just happen subconsciously either. You don't subconsciously undress a child and start having sex with it. It requires intentional planning. ADHD doesn't work that way. So your argument doesn't hold up.

What makes you so sure it requires intentional planning? That's a very big assumption you're making there so it's fair to say your argument doesn't hold up either?

ADHD and alcoholism isn't a compatible example to make. It's been argued that ADHD is measured in terms of social norms, a social construct so to speak since what constitutes ADHD varies wildly place to place, but alcoholism is measured less in social norms than psychological and chemical components combined with negative social/family conditions (not to be confused with social constructs). How do we explain why some people are addicted to alcohol and the rest aren't? Why are children with alcoholic parents alcoholics? Should they be punished for having an alcoholic family? These issues cannot ever be reduced to whatever maxims or solutions you're spurting out now.

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Out of ADHD, alcoholism, pedophilia and cancer, which would you think is the most depressing to people? Even throw beastiality into the mix. Which of those five are most depressing? Even if you'll die from cancer I have a feeling that its less depressing than lusting after kids. They're all diseases, whether they're mental, chemical, physiological.

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geo said:

Out of ADHD, alcoholism, pedophilia and cancer, which would you think is the most depressing to people? Even throw beastiality into the mix. Which of those five are most depressing? Even if you'll die from cancer I have a feeling that its less depressing than lusting after kids. They're all diseases, whether they're mental, chemical, physiological.


how about depression in general? the whole point of depression is to be depressed.

of those, only cancer really is a disease. the rest are mental disorders

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