How do you make the perfect Hellish map?

Just looking for advice on the visual styles and gimmicks that can be used to make a great, atmospheric and scary hellish environment. Hell is my favourite type of map. In the maps that I've made I've tried to use various gimmicks that are sort of hit and miss. I truly envy massively immersive hell environments such as the ones in Deus Vult, Threshold Of Pain and many others.

My favourite textures to use are rockred, snake, sp_hot and the marbles. I generally use rockred with one of the rrock textures, sp hot with floor6_1 and snake textures with skin2. My marble textures often come with streams of blood. So far I've totally failed to utilize the zdoom textures, but when I learn to do so I'm sure I'll have have many other favourites.

I try to base my hells more directly from the religious texts. So basically it's a place where people are getting punished. I find the corpse textures very useful for simulating the look of tortured souls:










I try to give my hell maps a certain "roundness". I remember listening to Guillermo del Torro's commentary for Hellboy: The Golden Army. He was talking about how he based the structures of the non-magical world in blues and straight lines, while the magical world was round with brown and red. I kind of used that inspiration for this map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amFspvUmng0 - I tried to give the blue base levels more straight lines while putting in circular pits in red hell. Some other examples:









Hell should have a certain amount of "weirdness". I'm still struggling to utilize this. Here's my attempt at making weird structures:










Finally, dark areas with glowing floors seem to work well:









Show your own methods! Share your ideas on creating a hell that would make even Baphomet blush!

I'm sick of Hellish maps that abuse the red colour (specially REDROCK). And green marble too, although to a lesser extent.

I appreciate twisted usage of decorations (thing or sector based ones) in a hellish map. Also an architecture that mixes wild elements (rocks, lakes) with more organized structures (temples, metal, and perhaps even tech details!). Any variety is good, but in a Hell map, the overall feel should stay "strange" in an inhuman... er... Hellish way.

By the way, here are some screenshots of a Hellish map that I've abandoned a longer time ago. It's rather dark and nothing extra, though.

Yeah, the red-green Christmas theme (as Huy Pham put it) wouldn't be my go-to, unless I had a specific "innovation" in mind.

Hell is an amorphous concept, and there's quite a lot of room for creativity within reason, so I'd try to trek down the lesser-traveled pathways, stylistically and thematically -- or to bring interesting juxtapositions to the table, if I stayed in the realm of the familiar. There are a hell lot of hells other than the Biblical one and Dante's Inferno.

There's room for creativity without reason, too. It's hell, after all -- who says it can't be a head-shaped 8196-by-8196 sector made of nothing but BIGDOOR1. >:-D

One of the things that differentiates "demons from Hell" from "demonic-looking aliens from a Hell-like alternate dimension," for me, is the idea that Hell is a place that exists in response to, and as a reflection of, humanity. It's not an alien, incomprehensible place; it's a place shaped by human sins and human fears, that reshapes itself to mock and torment humanity. One part of Doom 2's design aesthetic is that cyborg monsters play a much larger role; instead of the fusion of machine and flesh being reserved for bosses alone, it's rolled out to mid-tier demons, as Hell and Earth bleed together and a kind of infernal technological revolution takes place.

In terms of level design, this means that humanity's embrace of technology should be reflected in a warped fashion in the nature of Hell. Medieval torture chambers are crammed full of profane machines whose gunmetal-dark parts gleam freshly-oiled in the guttering light of burning torches. Pipes that pump blood and pus erupt from walls of living, tormented flesh. Incomprehensible mechanisms churn and crush, their designs baffling the tormented souls that look upon them. Dante's Inferno has been upgraded.

There is no such thing as a "perfect hellish map" or even a "perfect map". Just make what you feel will make a good map.

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In my opinion one of the best Hell levels is Map 21 from Alien Vendetta. It is a small and simple level, but with nice visuals, even if it uses the usual hell textures. There is also a bit of technology here and there, if I recall it right.

But I think that Doom hellish textures are not really good. Maybe too ripetitive.

Justince said:

Sucks that we can't have a hellish map discussion without the mention of DV, the most overrated map set of all time. It's not the end-all be-all of design people, Christ.

Sucks that you're blinded by your hatred so much that you don't even tolerate an innocent mention of the wad. It's not the end-all be-all of design, right, but it's not a crime if somebody else than you has a favorable opinion towards its immersive environments.

It sucks that scifista42 doesn't like marble, because my map that I've been working on for the last while now uses most of the marble variations. Back to the drawing board, again. I've got to stop reading threads like these, because it seems like I'll never finish my map lol.

Heh. I only dislike marble when I see too much of it for too long time, specially if used as a corridor wallpaper without an idea. Still, I like the big green marble area (the one with evil eyes and green torches) in a screenshot in this thread's OP. ;)

scifista42 said:

Heh. I only dislike marble when I see too much of it for too long time, specially if used as a corridor wallpaper without an idea. Still, I like the big green marble area (the one with evil eyes and green torches) in a screenshot in this thread's OP. ;)

Jade Earth had fantastic marble usage.

Du Mhan Yhu said:

Jade Earth had fantastic marble usage.

That map does a great job at combining seemingly unrelated materials in a way that both looks awe-inspiring and feels "legit".

JE is a fantastic map, but it's not even remotely Hell-themed.
BTW, Hell doesn't mean red rocks, lava and gothic textures. Those are just cliches ppl clutch onto for lack of imagination.
Hell is mundane. It's all around you, you just have to open your eyes.

I usually envision something weird and Lovecraftian. Maybe with redrock/brick abuse if in the right context.

scifista42 said:

Heh. I only dislike marble when I see too much of it for too long time, specially if used as a corridor wallpaper without an idea. Still, I like the big green marble area (the one with evil eyes and green torches) in a screenshot in this thread's OP. ;)

I know where you're coming from, I was only teasing. :P

The map I've been working on, The Nameless City (Inspired by the H.P Lovecraft story). It consists mostly of the marble, wood and stone textures. I'm intentionally avoiding hellfire and brimstone cliches. My interpretation of hell for this map consists of great depths, darkness and ancient ruins.

GRB started a community project where everyone was supposed to submit extremely difficult levels themed around their own interpretation of Hell. It was a cool idea but I think only one map got finished, which was rejected as too easy.

I reclaimed the name of that project, Visions of Hell. and am nearly half way through a megawad set in Hell. Episode 1 is gothic tombs and temples, episode 2 is natural, episode 3 will be hell tech and episode 4 will be flesh and fire.

I'm not sure some of the levels will be considered Hellish enough. I kind of lose that impulse to make overtly Hellish scenes once I'm making the level itself. Hopefully they will at least look otherworldly.

Never_Again said:

BTW, Hell doesn't mean red rocks, lava and gothic textures.

I dunno, I think it kind of does in the context of Doom. If you make some creepy map that doesn't have these typical characteristics, most likely people won't have any reason to think of it as a hell map. People will see it as something different from Doom's hell, therefore not hell. For example, purist's Visions of Hell portray some earthy\bricky\base environments and I won't think of them as hellish just because he put "Hell" in the title. Sorry, I already have different classification for maps that look like that.

scifista42 said:

I'm sick of Hellish maps that abuse the red colour (specially REDROCK). And green marble too, although to a lesser extent.

I appreciate twisted usage of decorations (thing or sector based ones) in a hellish map. Also an architecture that mixes wild elements (rocks, lakes) with more organized structures (temples, metal, and perhaps even tech details!). Any variety is good, but in a Hell map, the overall feel should stay "strange" in an inhuman... er... Hellish way.

By the way, here are some screenshots of a Hellish map that I've abandoned a longer time ago. It's rather dark and nothing extra, though.

I on the other hand can't get enough of rockred and marbles. I think they, along with the other textures I've mentioned, are simply amazing at creating superb hellish atmosphere. I actually like the old fashioned fire and brimstone vision of hell. Also, the marble cathedrals make me think of the old European paintings of hell, which is I think what the original creators were going for. It may not be the most original, but I think it's the most effective.

I like the strange architecture of the screencaps you've posted. I totally agree about the strangeness factor. I personally never use those textures for two reasons:

A. I really hate the brown textures in Doom. Some people like them but I find them bland when used too much, and its overuse in Doom 2 put me off them even more. I especially don't see brown when it comes to hell. Also, for some reason I hate wooden textures in hell. I think hell should be rock, marble and metal. I only tolerate wood for the door textures, but each to his own.

B. The lighting ceiling textures. It drives me crazy when I see electric lights in hell. I agree with your statement that hell should have some tech elements, but I think that texture is a little too "normal" looking to be in hell. I think tech elements in hell should be more twisted and foreboding. I think black metal textures such as Metal or Support3 are great for evil looking metallic architecture in hell. I personally limit the "tech" element in hell by making elevators with support3 textures. I wouldn't mind if the tech elements were taken further, though I do still prefer my medieval-lookig hell.

AD_79 said:

There is no such thing as a "perfect hellish map" or even a "perfect map". Just make what you feel will make a good map.

Yeah, you'll find that I was being figurative with that word :)

Never_Again said:

JE is a fantastic map, but it's not even remotely Hell-themed.
BTW, Hell doesn't mean red rocks, lava and gothic textures. Those are just cliches ppl clutch onto for lack of imagination.
Hell is mundane. It's all around you, you just have to open your eyes.

Thankfully, hell in Doom at least is free of pretentious pseudo-philosophy.

Never_Again said:

Hell is mundane. It's all around you, you just have to open your eyes.

Wow, I don't think I've heard a line like that since middle school.

HELL IS TRELL