Looking for feedback for my 1st ep of my Doom 1 wad

So I have just finished the first episode for my Doom 1 megawad that I have been working on.
I have already planed the rest but since I've never released a wad before I thought it would be nice to get some feedback first.

Things I'm interested in:
Stuff I do well.
Stuff I do bad.
Is it fun?
Does it look good?
Things I should consider.

I will probably once this is finished add custom music and some custom intermission stuff. Taking suggestions. :)

Enjoy.

This wad has difficulty settings but is designed for UV btw.

!!THIS WAD REQUIRE A MAPINFO COMPATIBLE SOURCE IN ORDER TO PLAY THE LEVELS IN THE CORRECT ORDER!!

Screens: http://imgur.com/a/usm6c
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/download/kvjppop0jlzy6cj/xep1test.zip

Knas said:

!!THIS WAD REQUIRE A MAPINFO COMPATIBLE SOURCE IN ORDER TO PLAY THE LEVELS IN THE CORRECT ORDER!!

If the maps are otherwise vanilla compatible (or limit removing, or Boom), it's kind of unfortunate to restrict their usage in lowest-compatible ports just because of a secret map slot, which you could have fixed by reassigning maps in the normal slots or using E2 or E3 or E4 slots instead of E1. You're unnecessarily limiting your audience that way. Anyway, screenshots looked pretty good, I'll give this a try.

scifista42 said:

If the maps are otherwise vanilla compatible (or limit removing, or Boom), it's kind of unfortunate to restrict their usage in lowest-compatible ports just because of a secret map slot, which you could have fixed by reassigning maps in the normal slots or using E2 or E3 or E4 slots instead of E1. You're unnecessarily limiting your audience that way. Anyway, screenshots looked pretty good, I'll give this a try.

I don't know what you mean with "reassigning maps in the normal slots or using E2 or E3 or E4 slots instead of E1". I'm pretty new to source ports stuff. The reason I did this is just because I needed an easy way to change the secret level for the source I'm using. It's just for testing. When this is released I intend to make it as compatible as possible.

Btw, does it really change that much what people choose to play depending on the source port? Thought most of them were cross compatible anyway.

Knas said:

I don't know what you mean with "reassigning maps in the normal slots or using E2 or E3 or E4 slots instead of E1".

For example, do you want to have secret exit in M5 in a vanilla compatible way? Move all your maps to E2 slots (E2M1, E2M2... E2M9), because E2 has a default secret exit in M5. Or, did you make E1M4 with a secret exit? Rename the map to E1M3 and rename E1M3 to E1M4 (swapping the maps). Simple yet efficient, and unlike MAPINFO, it works everywhere. ;)

When this is released I intend to make it as compatible as possible.

That's right - then you will need to make a workaround for the non-MAPINFO ports, so better start already.

Btw, does it really change that much what people choose to play depending on the source port? Thought most of them were cross compatible anyway.

MAPINFO is pretty much ZDoom only, which means that if you say that your wad requires a MAPINFO-compatible source port, you force people to use a ZDoom-based port, which would mean no .lmp demos and less overall attention for your work.

scifista42 said:

For example, do you want to have secret exit in M5 in a vanilla compatible way? Move all your maps to E2 slots (E2M1, E2M2... E2M9), because E2 has a default secret exit in M5. Or, did you make E1M4 with a secret exit? Rename the map to E1M3 and rename E1M3 to E1M4 (swapping the maps). Simple yet efficient, and unlike MAPINFO, it works everywhere. ;)

Yeah sorry, I don't really get this... If I rename the maps, won't the play in the wrong order then? That's not an option. And move to the E2 slots? This will be a 4ep wad.

What I want now is to change the secret level (it's in e1m4 in this wad) and the end text. Is there something to read out there that explains what you said me to do?

from screenshots looks cool, downloading now...

MAPINFO dependency is not the only problem. The textures are a mess, I think. Eternity has garbage on walls.

Played a bunch of levels in ZDoom - everything works fine, I like the wad.

Knas said:

What I want now is to change the secret level (it's in e1m4 in this wad) and the end text. Is there something to read out there that explains what you said me to do?

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Secret_level

E1M1 is an unplayable mess of HOM and screwed-up textures, I didn't look farther than the start. DeepSea reports action linedefs missing required sector tags and missing teleporter destinations. Unless you are willing to learn proper mapping standards and test in other ports, the only thing this clusterfuck of a WAD will ever work with is Zdoom (i.e. no standards).

Never_Again said:

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Secret_level

E1M1 is an unplayable mess of HOM and screwed-up textures, I didn't look farther than the start. DeepSea reports action linedefs missing required sector tags and missing teleporter destinations. Unless you are willing to learn proper mapping standards and test in other ports, the only thing this clusterfuck of a WAD will ever work with is Zdoom (i.e. no standards).

I now about secret levels, just wanted to know about other methods to change the level order.

Also there is no other reason it should not work. I'm using DB2 with default settings, all I did to the wad was adding some textures using Slade. I'm I using the wrong nodebuilder or something?

The problem is with your TEXTURE2 and PNAMES. Apparently, you created them from scratch, which is OK with Zdoom but breaks compatibility with other ports. When you create new textures (rather than replace existing ones from the IWAD), you need to import TEXTURE1, TEXTURE2 and PNAMES from DOOM.WAD and add your new entries to them.

Additionally, your WAD has graphics entries in PNG format, which is also not compatible with vanilla and Boom engines. SLADE converts them easily to DOOM format.

I tinkered with your WAD and fixed what I could: link

E1M1 now runs in Prboom-plus with no texture errors. I didn't go far into the level, just to confirm that the weirdness and HOM are gone. However, I didn't manage to make it work in Chocolate DOOM; it bombs out on "R_GenerateLookup: column without a patch (PI19A0)". If you can fix that, your WAD could be tested for vanilla compatibility, too.

Completed it on HMP. Pretty good stuff. Easily the most enjoyable Doom 1 level set I've played in a while. It was pretty easy, and the ammo was overly abundant, but it managed to surprise me from time to time, and I didn't always feel safe, especially towards the end.

I liked the layouts, and the architecture was aesthetically pleasing without being overly complex. The E1/E2 mixture of styles was spot on for me. Also, it was nice to see some tricks with rooms changing their appearance, or lights turning on/off - the latter is not very common nowadays.

I hope the technical issues will be resolved, even though I don't get very emotional over compatibility stuff.

Knas said:

Things I should consider.

I assume that the following episodes will feature more cacos and barons. I hope that it won't turn the combat into tedious grind.

Knas said:

If I rename the maps, won't the play in the wrong order then? That's not an option.

Yes. And reordering maps is an option, IMO a better option than forcing MAPINFO compatibility, which was my point. That's all. :)

Here are some texture errors in Zandronum (every instance of this texture type is glitched). I've actually played with Never_Again's fixed version:

I decided on a quick, casual play of the first 2 maps. By casual, I mean continuous play on UV.

I'd say the maps are an architectural triumph. Very nice work in a combo E1/E2 style, which is my favorite for UDoom, as I think the monster mix lends itself to Helltech bases. The lighting and texture use is exceptional, and as I used GZDoom, I had no problems.

Gameplay was too easy, IMO. It was very straightforward shootage against small clumps of hitscanners and Imps for the most part, who were almost always in front of the player. M1 was more challenging than M2 because it was less generous with health, so the hitscan attrition took its toll. Coming into M2 on continuous meant I already had the chaingun, and since the shotgun appeared right away, I was able to chew through the map so easily that I was never below 80% health.

The primary gameplay problem is that the player never gets flanked, especially to the rear, so it becomes a shooting gallery where as long as you have ammo, you're guaranteed to win, and even though M2 has a relatively high monster count, the map is so large that it seems geared too much to the player's benefit. If I get down to serious playtesting, which is difficult for me ATM owing to time constraints, I'd play each map from pistol-start, which is more fair since you seem to be going for an attrition-based gameplay approach, which is unlikely to be effective against continuous players, unless they are even worse than I am. ;D

The secrets seem to be genuinely obtuse as well. I managed to find only 1 in M1 and 2 in M2. I haven't checked the maps in DB2 yet, but it seems like the path to the yellow key in M2 must be highly difficult.

The Imp reveal near the exit of M2 is ineffective because they appear way high and you can just run right past them. Keep in mind that some players love to UV-Max a map, and using enemies in this way is liable to bore them since it comes in the "clean-up" phase.

I always tend to advocate for tougher gameplay, so keep that in mind, but I do think the first 2 maps are too easy. Don't be afraid to use the old reliable monster closets, and since you already use teleport traps, don't be shy about flooding an area with monsters who'll attack from multiple directions. A big part of the fun in Doom, IMO, is the panic that results from situations that place the player in extreme danger.

I give you props for the lights-out trap in the exit area of M1, more for the visual and psychological impact than the gameplay. I like how the walls descended partway when the lights went out, revealing the redness behind them. That was cool!

I'll say more as I go along. This is quite impressive work for your first effort. Well done!

@scifista: I'm not surprised. There are textures with non-power-of-two sizes, thus the visible seams. Odd that Prboom-plus doesn't show them.


I looked into the "R_GenerateLookup" error. Patch PI06A0 (58x72) was too narrow for the texture it was used in (PI19A0, 64x72). Solved by resizing the patch to 64x72.

The updated version now runs in vanilla - link. There is a lot of tutti-frutti on display but it works.

Chocolate DOOM still crashes on E1M1, it currently can't handle Medusa the way vanilla does. Medusa on E1M1 is caused by using multi-patch textures on single-sided lines:

   1. Linedef 106, texture COMPWERD has 2 patches!
   2. Linedef 107, texture COMPWERD has 2 patches!
   3. Linedef 2152, texture ICKWALL7 has 4 patches!
   4. Linedef 2169, texture COMPWERD has 2 patches!
   5. Linedef 2238, texture ICKWALL2 has 2 patches!

   1. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 1262)
       LineDef 1262, type 63 requires a Sector tag
   2. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 1380)
       LineDef 1380, type 63 requires a Sector tag
   3. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 1385)
       LineDef 1385, type 63 requires a Sector tag
   4. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 1483)
       LineDef 1483, type 71 requires a Sector tag
   5. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 1500)
       LineDef 1500, type 63 requires a Sector tag
   6. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 1519)
       LineDef 1519, type 63 requires a Sector tag
   7. LineDef 1555 Normal
       Sector tag 5 not required.
   8. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 1558)
       LineDef 1558, type 63 requires a Sector tag
   9. LineDef 1563 Normal
       Sector tag 5 not required.
  10. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 1773)
       LineDef 1773, type 63 requires a Sector tag
  11. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 1938)
       LineDef 1938, type 63 requires a Sector tag
  12. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3073)
       LineDef 3073 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  13. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3074)
       LineDef 3074 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  14. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3075)
       LineDef 3075 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  15. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3076)
       LineDef 3076 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  16. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3077)
       LineDef 3077 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  17. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3078)
       LineDef 3078 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  18. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3079)
       LineDef 3079 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  19. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3080)
       LineDef 3080 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  20. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3081)
       LineDef 3081 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  21. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3082)
       LineDef 3082 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  22. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3083)
       LineDef 3083 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  23. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3084)
       LineDef 3084 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 8)
       7 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  24. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3114)
       LineDef 3114 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 16)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  25. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3115)
       LineDef 3115 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 16)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  26. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3116)
       LineDef 3116 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 16)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  27. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3117)
       LineDef 3117 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 16)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  28. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3118)
       LineDef 3118 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 16)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  29. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3119)
       LineDef 3119 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 15)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  30. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3120)
       LineDef 3120 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 15)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  31. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3121)
       LineDef 3121 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 15)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  32. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3122)
       LineDef 3122 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 15)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  33. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3123)
       LineDef 3123 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 15)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  34. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3124)
       LineDef 3124 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 16)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  35. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3125)
       LineDef 3125 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 16)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?
  36. Verification Failed on (LineDef  # 3126)
       LineDef 3126 WR*MonsterTele   (sector tag 15)
       2 Sectors have same Teleport Tag?

Never_Again said:

@scifista: I'm not surprised. There are textures with non-power-of-two sizes, thus the visible seams. Odd that Prboom-plus doesn't show them.

This particular texture is 64x128. It may be a problem unique to Zandronum - Valiant also had similar glitches, AFAIR.

Still, one should be cautious when ripping alpha textures - a lot of them have wonky sizes that won't work everywhere.

Knas said:

Yeah sorry, I don't really get this... If I rename the maps, won't the play in the wrong order then? That's not an option.

As a kludge/compromise, you could swap the map names in such a way that the one with the secret exit is called "E1M3", but then use mapinfo to make the episode progress in the 'right' order.

That way everybody can be fussy in their own way. Fussy people who like seeing the maps in the intended order can do so in any engine that allows it, while fussy people who prefer to play in their favorite (non-mapinfo) engines can still do so and reach the secret level.

Simply changing map names won't work: exits to and from secret levels are hard-coded in vanilla- and Boom-compatible ports. Doesn't matter much either way when doing every map from pistol start, but on continuous play you'll have to go through E1M4 twice if you put the secret exit in it.

Never_Again, you didn't get it: I and Mithran said that he should rename the slots in order to put his map with a secret exit to E1M3 slot. :)

I still don't get it. Try paraphrasing it, perhaps?

Discovering the secret exit is just a matter of finding a simple secret switch. In other words, it doesn't influence the map layout much.

My point is that simply moving the secret exit to E1M3 (without moving the entire maps around) would be an okay solution.

That depends on what's in the secret level. Whether it drains your ammo stash or gives you a weapon not available elsewhere, there's no mistaking direct influence on the gameplay of the next level.

Never_Again said:

I still don't get it. Try paraphrasing it, perhaps?

First, I'll paraphrase what I said:

Swap maps in slots E1M3 and E1M4. That's all. You don't need to rely on your intended map order so much.


Second, I'll paraphrase what Mithran Denizen said:

Swap maps in slots E1M3 and E1M4, and have a MAPINFO that changes map order to E1M1 - E1M2 - E1M4 - E1M3 - E1M5 - ..., so that the intended map order (=secret exit in 4th map) is preserved for people who play in advanced ports, while vanilla players will play in the default order (E1M1 - E1M2 - E1M3 - E1M4 - ...) to play the map with a secret exit as the 3rd map.

Da Werecat said:

Completed it on HMP. Pretty good stuff. Easily the most enjoyable Doom 1 level set I've played in a while. It was pretty easy, and the ammo was overly abundant, but it managed to surprise me from time to time, and I didn't always feel safe, especially towards the end.

I liked the layouts, and the architecture was aesthetically pleasing without being overly complex. The E1/E2 mixture of styles was spot on for me. Also, it was nice to see some tricks with rooms changing their appearance, or lights turning on/off - the latter is not very common nowadays.

I hope the technical issues will be resolved, even though I don't get very emotional over compatibility stuff.


I assume that the following episodes will feature more cacos and barons. I hope that it won't turn the combat into tedious grind.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I know about the ammo, but I want to be a little generous in the first episode.
However I've already removed a bunch and if I remove more they will be pretty hard to do from pistol start. But maybe that's not important?

scifista42 said:

Here are some texture errors in Zandronum (every instance of this texture type is glitched). I've actually played with Never_Again's fixed version:

Yes I know about that texture doing that. That's why I haven't placed them where you see them. Weird..

Couldn't you just address everybody's name in a one-post answer, instead of multiposting and quoting walls of texts? Neither of that is a good thing to do on the forum.

scifista42 said:

Couldn't you just address everybody's name in a one-post answer, instead of multiposting and quoting walls of texts? Neither of that is a good thing to do on the forum.

I could but I wasn't sure about how to do in a good way. :( Sorry.

I've played the wad up to E1M5 (inclusive) so far. Seems like a conventional KDiTD episode replacement. That said, it's a good one, nothing less and nothing more. Gameplay and aesthetics are thoroughly KDiTD-like, with their imperfections (texture misalignments and repetitiveness, generally unimpressive texturing), which are however completely forgivable if the player is an E1-lover. Sometimes you use overly big ambushes (teleport or not) with too many monsters that are just tedious to kill. Design is OK, well elaborate and interconnected and techbase-y, although it lacks memorability. If all you wanted was to provide more Doomish stuff for the marine to wade through and enjoy as he already did a hundred times, then you're doing it more than good. If you wanted more, impress the player or practice level design and gameplay capable of providing something fresh and/or thrilling and memorable, you'd have to spice it up with more ideas and stuff. But this is up to you - I say that for a KDiTD replacement, you did well!

Bug report: I've seen an imp stuck inside a demon in E1M4, you should be able to find them with the help of DoomBuilder's Error Checker.