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freak0mator

First wad by new guy

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Hi,
i want to get into doom levelbuilding as a side-hobby and this is the first wad i finished. It replaces level 1 of doom2.

Its just trying to be a somewhat fun doom map without any special features, but i put some time into it, so it would be great if some people would try it out and comment. Im new to this, but you may be cruel in your judgement if you want. ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2fjgwwvnz175q3m/firstwhatever.wad?dl=0

[edit]Fixed version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nmz73h74...tever2.wad?dl=0 [/edit]


I am now beginning to play through Cacoward winners of the last years to get an idea of what is out there, but i when i made this level i only had played through the original doom1 and doom2, so i didnt know about all the craziness that is possible. :O

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Cool map. The first corridor trap was sooo predictable but cute in its own way, and later on the traps became more interesting. To my taste there was perhaps too many monsters per square meter: some areas felt unnecessarily packed with hordes that were a bit tedious to kill. Also many monsters are stuck in prboom+, I guess you did all testing in ZDoom? That's not exactly the best port for testing as it "forgives" many mapping errors that will lead to ugly stuff in more conservative ports.

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FDA on UV in 20:40

A decent WAD with oldschool gameplay and design. I liked the outdoor area with the yellow key with those bars overhead, simple and elegant. Much of the level is a little too brown but not excessively so. The red-key area was the most interesting: you could see the key from different places but it took a while to figure out how to get it.

The opposition's density was just right for my taste, although after playing for a few minutes I assumed it would be a turkey shoot all the way and relaxed... too early, as it turned out!

It's weird how many stuck monsters there are, though, especially towards the end. The Arch-Vile was completely neutralized by the Specters hemming him in. I missed getting the obvious plasma rifle secret when I realized the purpose of the rising walkway too late. I don't think I had much use for it anyway, at that point there were only a dozen monsters left (most of whom I missed).

I found the first secret by checking the automap. The hidden door showed yellow. Was it an intentional hint? It came in handy, that chaingunner ambush by the red key would have certainly gotten me if not for that supercharge.

Not bad for a my-first-WAD, not bad at all.

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This is great for a first map, a fairly complicated layout with simple unfussy design. Very unpredictable and varied journey. The monster density is quite crowded but ok I reckon, maybe you don't need so many imps on the shelves, but I didn't find it a slog once I had the SSG. My only criticism is the very cramped computer maze which is awkward to navigate and gives me motion sickness when the walls are so close. Enjoyed the rocket launcher trap.

If you are using doom builder I'd recommend setting the things to be square shapes rather than circles, and make sure the monsters aren't overlapping each other or cutting into walls. I played in zdoom and only saw one monster stuck in a wall.

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First map? Really? Pretty good! Interesting, non-square-box design. Nice use of height variations. Really liked the curved stairs and hallways. It felt a little long, but not obnoxiously so. It would have been a little longer, but when I finished I realized I had somehow missed the NE room with the Rocket Launcher. Good thing there were plenty of shells and bullets to carry the day. Hmmm. Maybe having the RL would have made it feel shorter.

I liked that there are combats you can skip. I liked going through the same area multiple times with new combats each time.

I usually hate one-shot secrets you have to get on the first try, but the one in the last room was interesting. Hit the switch, jump onto the wall, then... wait. But a bit useless. By the time you get the Plasma Gun there's not much left to kill.

Edit: And no, I wasn't suggesting having something like a Cyber appear when you get the Plasma Gun. I like that you don't have a Cyber or Spiderboss in your first map. Lots of people do.

I like the consistent lift manner of getting the keys. That feels a little like an author's signature; like the exit platforms in Plutonia.

The cramped hallways of the TEKWALL4 maze area felt out of place compared to the size of the other hallways and rooms.

The AV in the last room wasn't much of a threat. He kept getting hit by something else so I could SSG him from behind.

Played using ZDoom. A few minor things:

---
Two Shotgunners stuck together in this closet.

http://i.imgur.com/DPKJeUH.png

---
A Spectre stuck in the wall in this closet.

http://i.imgur.com/rzakFfJ.png

---
One of the Mancubi in the last room didn't move or attack until I shot him. He's just barely over the edge of the platform. I can't think what else would cause that.

Very nice work. I had fun. Thank you.

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Thanks to all for the responses. :)

Its really cool to see somebody else play my level, but unfortunately both demos are broken when i replay them :( and they both break in the same corridor. I guess there is something wrong with the sectors there, but i cant find anything in DoomBuilder (?).

I guess you did all testing in ZDoom?

Unfortunately so. ^^ So i missed most of the stuck monsters and some other bugs (like a door that cant be opened). I have now also downloaded prBoom+ and ChocolateDoom and will use them as well.

I found the first secret by checking the automap. The hidden door showed yellow. Was it an intentional hint?

Not really, that door actually should only open from the other side... you did the whole corridor backwards, thats why the monsters were facing backwards. :D

when I finished I realized I had somehow missed the NE room with the Rocket Launcher.

Yeah, its optional and unfortunately i did not provide a good way to backtrack there after you run past it once (you would have to suffer all the way through the sucky tekwall-maze again).

The cramped hallways of the TEKWALL4 maze area felt out of place compared to the size of the other hallways and rooms.

Yeah, i confess that area sucks and should have been replaced. And the entrance to the corridor is dark and unremarkable, thats why Never_Again during his playthrough didnt even notice it at first and had to do some un-fun searching around.

So i think the main issues are some unnecessarily narrow rooms and corridors and of course the cramped/buggy monster placement.
The Arch-Ville was supposed to be a diffucult fight without having the plasma rifle. Well... ^^

I already learned a lot from your feedback, tyvm.

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freak0mator said:

unfortunately both demos are broken when i replay them :( and they both break in the same corridor.

You need to run the demo with the exact same version of the map it was recorded on. Also, you need to run it in a compatible sourceport with the one it was recorded on. Vanilla / PrBoom-plus demos will never replay properly in ZDoom, for example.

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Don't run it with Doom95, it will desync because of Lost Souls bouncing where they are not supposed to. Use Prb+ with "-auto" on CMD line or Chocolate Doom with "-iwad doom2.wad -file firstwhatever.wad".

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You need to run the demo with the exact same version of the map it was recorded on.


Oops, yeah, i must have changed my local wad in the meantime. ^^
After loading the original wad i was able watch the whole replays.

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I've played the map. Pretty good for a first release (aside from errors like the numerous stuck monsters). There were a bit too many hitscanners and occasionally too big packs of lowly-threatening monsters in general. Anyway, I've enjoyed the map, I particularly liked how some parts were optional, and how the gameplay was varied. Keep up the good work! :)

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Yes, that door that cant be opened is the problem. It can be opened in zDoom. But i honestly dont know what i did wrong there.
Right in front of the door there is a LineDef that is supposed to open another door when walking over it, that seems to be a problem, but i dont understand why....

See pic:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xpl46dyrcp7f5lv/door%20error.png?dl=0

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In Doom2.exe the player will always try to activate only the closest linedef with a trigger, even if it is something like "scroll texture" that can't be pressed. I think you need a distance of at least 16 units between two trigger lines to avoid problems like this.

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^Correct. And I should add that it's not just Doom2.exe, but basically all classic ports - aside from the ZDoom-based ones. If you want compatibility with them, avoid putting walkover-activated linedefs in front of switch-activated ones.

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I also encountered the broken door and numerous enemies stuck in walls or on each other, particularly in the final area. But if that's really your first map then it's a damn good one! I didn't mind the mass of former humans, though a bit more armour would have been good. That said, you did give a CG (for open areas) and SSG (for the corridors) fairly near the start which helped a lot. An enjoyable map!

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Memfis said:

In Doom2.exe the player will always try to activate only the closest linedef with a trigger, even if it is something like "scroll texture" that can't be pressed. I think you need a distance of at least 16 units between two trigger lines to avoid problems like this.

Or use "PassThru" linedef attribute (only available for Boom-compatible maps).

scifista42 said:

avoid putting walkover-activated linedefs in front of switch-activated ones.

This should read as "avoid putting any non-zero action linedefs in front of use-activated ones".

edit: I must have been lucky not to run into that bug.

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EffinghamHuffnagel said:

Two Shotgunners stuck together in this closet.

http://i.imgur.com/DPKJeUH.png


I wish I was that stimpack, stuck all up in there all between them.

Anyways, great first map. I really enjoyed it, aside from a couple minor things. I'd provide an fda, but, I played on Zdoom.

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hihi, played your map three times on ITYTD, HMP, and UV.

-ITYTD was easy as I expected, HMP was rather rough, while UV wasn't really as different as HMP.
-others have noticed stuck monsters, like the two sergeants in that one closet. the archie in the final area, plus a spectre on higher difficulties, some of the imps on the ledge nearby were stuck too. there's also one mancubus stuck, but he can be freed by shooting him.
-I find it interesting that in the final area, there are a ton of armor bonuses ONLY on UV difficulty.
-the key grabs were a bit lazy but I didn't mind them.
-I liked the chaingun trap.
-the long corridors with zombies in them were the most fun part, mowing down hordes of zombiemen with the chaingun.
-I didn't find a lot of places to utilize the rocket launcher, except maybe for the ambush that came when I got it.
-the 48-wide corridors with sargeants was something I didn't like.
-the plasma gun secret near the end, I apparently had only one shot to reach it.

overall, good job except for sticky monsters.

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Getsu Fune said:

-the plasma gun secret near the end, I apparently had only one shot to reach it.

Right, this is another thing that I disliked while playing and forgot to mention. I believe it's correct and comfortable to eventually allow backtracking over the entire map including its secrets. As a player, I feel annoyed when I find out that I've missed my chance / something prevents me from reaching an area anymore.

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http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/6422305 = I cover this wad on my playtesting stream #3, somewhere around the 3-hour mark I think.

For a first wad by a newcomer, this was particularly impressive. (I could spot the Doom 2 map influences, from The Citadel and The Pit particularly) The only flaw I could find was a few instances where monsters got stuck together and wouldn't move, otherwise I enjoyed this map greatly!

I hope you get some good inspiration from seeing other wads, and I look forward to playing more of your maps in the future.

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http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/6422305 = I cover this wad on my playtesting stream #3, somewhere around the 3-hour mark I think.

Thanks very much. I like the idea of those playtesting videos, will watch more of them in the future.




I actually now made a (hopefully) fixed version of the map.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nmz73h7402rfte/firstwhatever2.wad?dl=0

- Monster not stuck anymore.
- All doors now work as intended.
- Narrow tekwall corridors are gone.
- It is now possible to "backtrack" to the plasma gun secret (still only one chance to get it before the last fight)

-I find it interesting that in the final area, there are a ton of armor bonuses ONLY on UV difficulty.

That was not intentional and i also fixed that.

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for a first wad, this is very nice. I feel it could easily fit as one of the later levels in doom 2 or plutinia. you tinker around even more and imagine what you can make

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