Reusing same song in a wad

What's your opinion on reusing midis in wads? Like DOOM2.WAD has "Waiting for Romero to Play" on maps 18 and 27, etc. Is it universally accepted that the more unique tracks there are in a wad, the better the soundtrack is? Or do you think reusing is justified sometimes?

Well in a musical sense it could be considered as a reprise.

I imagine it was budget problems though. Making midi was a bit more difficult then than it is now.

I think it's important to recognise the merits of reusing tracks across multiple maps in any given mapset. It's not something we do very often these days because of the growing repository of quality tracks and the number of active musicians in the community, but I do think we need to start reconsidering this approach. For one, better tracks get a lot more opportunity to shine and gain admirers, and using them in maps of a different nature means that you can advertise their flexibility more - it gives the tracks more character. Nothing against the concept of having a unique track for every map in principle, but I think we've already missed out in some cases on making a couple of great-sounding tracks well known in the community to boot.

Bring back this practice, I say.

Good question. I suppose there's no real objective answer though, it depends on track length/style combined with map size. More subtle/atmospheric music is probably easier to re-use over the course of a mapset without seeming like you're taking shortcuts.

Songs are reused in the whole mapping community, so why not?

I hate this practice, it feels lazy to me.

I find it very bothersome.

I like when it's done for thematic purposes. Tracks recurring in hub levels, for instance. E3M9 of UD missed a chance to use a variant of the E3M1 track to mirror the level concept.

joe-ilya said:

Songs are reused in the whole mapping community, so why not?

He means the same track in the same wad- like D_RUNNIN in MAP01 and MAP15 of Doom II for example.

I've toying with the idea repeating the same track on the boss maps of my megawad. But then I'm also using stock music so maybe that's besides the point of this thread.

joe's point was that songs are reused between different PWADs anyway. Personally I see an important distinction, an individual wad is a self-contained experience with possible thematic continuity. I don't mind hearing the same songs again and again in different PWADs. Even in community megawads where each map is essentially standalone, this is fine. Repeating midis strikes me as something negative otherwise. I feel music completes the environment by filling the gaps in Doom's visual fidelity as to make the level evoke a distinctive mood. Using the same tune for two different maps pulls me out of the atmosphere, if ever so slightly.

For me I guess it depends on the wad theme, map theme and how long said maps are. If I've you've just spent a good time hearing the same midi looping a few times over and over a change would be nice.

I guess by then I would have my own music on but the point still stands I guess as not everyone plays their own music during play.
Only to hear "THAT" music again can be a like "oh...but I heard this already" and if the atmosphere and theme of a map is completely different it just doesn't sit right with me.

Ninja'd XD

Phml said:

Using the same tune for two different maps pulls me out of the atmosphere, if ever so slightly.

I feel you need to mix both. Reuse certain tracks while keeping others unique.

I don't mind it, especially if two maps which reuse the same song are far away from each other.

It might feel lazy, or it might not - the latter happens particularly when there's an excellent atmosphere and the music is well picked to emphasize it. For example, I really liked Going Down, its maps, soundtrack and atmosphere, and IMO, everything in that megawad worked great and felt right, even though the music tracks were reused in 2-3 maps each. I suppose that purist's idea to reuse music on boss maps would work too, specially if his boss maps were exciting - and the music too. :)

Imagine a 32-level megawad where every track is D_RUNNIN?

I have no issue with a midi (or midis) being reused, as long as there's plenty of unique tracks to go around.

Piper Maru said:

Imagine a 32-level megawad where every track is D_RUNNIN?

I smell a community project idea. Other stipulations:

-- The entire level must be textured in MIDGRATE.
-- Only weapon: A Dehacked SSG with infinite ammo / firing rate.
-- Pain Elementals are the only allowed enemy. They are modified to spawn Lost Souls even when the player is out of sight. Lost Souls do 100000000 damage.

rdwpa said:

I smell a community project idea. Other stipulations:

-- The entire level must be textured in MIDGRATE.
-- Only weapon: A Dehacked SSG with infinite ammo / firing rate.
-- Pain Elementals are the only allowed enemy. They are modified to spawn Lost Souls even when the player is out of sight. Lost Souls do 100000000 damage.

Magnificent!!! I'll be the first in line.

Also;

Aren't there tracks Bobby Prince made but weren't used in the final game?

You mean these?

That's it! Thanks for sharing.

Just as an aside, the idea of recurring motifs in a project's OST is something that needs to be explored more. Something like the ICARUS theme tune, say, which is repeated on several tracks in the game in varying ways. Come to think of it, I'm surprised that this isn't done more often.

Alfonzo said:

Just as an aside, the idea of recurring motifs in a project's OST is something that needs to be explored more. Something like the ICARUS theme tune, say, which is repeated on several tracks in the game in varying ways. Come to think of it, I'm surprised that this isn't done more often.

Yes, this should definitely happen more, although I never really noticed that Icarus did that until now, heh.

Alfonzo said:

Just as an aside, the idea of recurring motifs in a project's OST is something that needs to be explored more. Something like the ICARUS theme tune, say, which is repeated on several tracks in the game in varying ways. Come to think of it, I'm surprised that this isn't done more often.

I know Action Doom 2 does that as well in several of its tunes.

Alfonzo said:

Just as an aside, the idea of recurring motifs in a project's OST is something that needs to be explored more. Something like the ICARUS theme tune, say, which is repeated on several tracks in the game in varying ways. Come to think of it, I'm surprised that this isn't done more often.

This is something I'm trying to do with Revilution, though since I'm only doing 3 tracks in the main maplist, it might not work too well :/

Between doom and doom 2, there are more than enough music tracks for every individual map in a megawad, so that can be difficult to excuse. However, for wads that have new original music, perhaps credited to a single musician, I have no qualms about reusing the same tracks in the same wad more than once. I think it can help emphasize how good the music is if it's repeated throughout the wad.

Perditions gate for example has great new music, but fewer tracks than levels, so naturally some tracks get used two or three times throughout, and i think it simply makes the music more memorable.

rdwpa said:

I smell a community project idea. Other stipulations:

-- The entire level must be textured in MIDGRATE.
-- Only weapon: A Dehacked SSG with infinite ammo / firing rate.
-- Pain Elementals are the only allowed enemy. They are modified to spawn Wolfenstein SS. The SS use the shotgunner attack every tic.

Slight change for better gameplay and aesthetics.

It's funny because reused music is why I'm sort of tied between TNT Evilution and Plutonia as to which I like better. I think Plutonia has better level design but I have to give TNT credit for having some original music pieces. It still takes some tracks from the old Dooms but Plutonia pretty much uses exclusively recycled tracks.