Which map do you think had the best architecture?

Out of Doom and Doom 2, which map do you think had the best architecture and why?

For me, it's E1M2 Nuclear Plant. Every time I think of Doom, that's the map that comes to mind. The twists and turns, great secrets, plenty of monsters...it's all great. The opening of this map is what really sells it for me. At the very start, you can go in one of three directions (left, right, or straight). So when you first play it, you're immediately like, "Crap, which way?"

A close second is Map19 The Citadel from Doom 2. This doesn't even need an explanation. It's a wonderfully built map. It's also huge without being boring.

The Inmost Dens

thank's for the thread please make more

E2M2

E2M9 nuff' said.

I consider MAP11 to be the most architecturally impressive map. The main circle is not necessarily a very special or difficult to recreate design, but is as exciting to play as it does at providing you the best possible view of everything in the map. It really make tall things look tall and low things look low. The thick pillars make everything look strong and fortified, and the gray with green trim is an attractive color scheme. It's just a great starting room.

Pretty much every map from E4 (except E4M4, which looks pretty lazy in comparison with the rest). From Doom 2, I really like The Inmost Dens and The Living End.

Deimos Labs, because it made me feel like a dwarf in those spooky halls. And then shit got even crazier after that red room. I mean that derelict place down there used to give me the heeby jeebies. I didn't like going down there, no sir!

Map 14 of Valiant had some neat architecture, with the whole hellish city feel to it with all the blood and brick structures and such.

map09 of Doom 2. Excellent height variation. As far as everything else goes, it's a little fucked, but it really nails the vertical combat for a game that didn't allow freelook.

Oooh yeah... MAP09, I remember that one. I was actually compelled to remake it in an Egyptian theme not too long ago and cut out/change a lot of the bullshitty parts. No idea why I did it, but I did.

Yeah, inmost dens was the first one I thought of. OP sounds like it's confusing architecture with layout.

Architecture: map14
Layout: map11

easily MAP14

E1M7 and MAP14.

It's amusing how architecture, landscaping and layout are all hopelessly mixed up in this thread. The very first post praises E1M2, while it is obvious that the poster means layout (hint: E1M2 has a nice pseudo-nonlinear layout and next to zero architecture).

Taking the definition of 'architecture' literally, MAP14 is the only reasonable candidate of the IWAD maps.

E1M2 does have pretty cool architecture imo. The first room has really really good use of pillars and mixed high/low ceilings, it still impresses me. The red key wing is impressive too, the chainsaw room has cool tall windows, and then there is the shape of the stairs leading to the exit room...

I like E1M7.

I'm not smart enough to know about those mysterious formal definitions of architecture, so for the record I'm going with this, as in, among other things, "a general term to describe buildings and other physical structures".

If we're counting PWADs, then I'll go with EMP07 of empyrion.wad
You can exit it in limit time but if you explore, then you're in for plenty of eye-candy.

If this discussion is limited to just IWADs, then I'll go with Map 15 of Doom 2 for architecture.

Phml said:

I'm not smart enough to know about those mysterious formal definitions of architecture, so for the record I'm going with this, as in, among other things, "a general term to describe buildings and other physical structures".

I like the buildings and other physical structures in map14 the most of all id maps, but I think the way in which the parts of map11 are arranged or laid out is better for creating enjoyable monster fighting situations.

My first thought is E4M6. It’s a shame that “Thy Flesh Consumed” maps ain’t no taller. I mean, they were done after “Doom II: Hell on Earth.”

Never_Again said:

It's amusing how architecture, landscaping and layout are all hopelessly mixed up in this thread. The very first post praises E1M2, while it is obvious that the poster means layout (hint: E1M2 has a nice pseudo-nonlinear layout and next to zero architecture).

By definition, architecture is the character or style of building.

So no, I meant architecture. But I like the map choices you made.

EDIT: In my original post, I did mistakenly include that I liked the monster placement on the map, which does have nothing to do with the architecture. I just lost my train of thought going on raving about E1M2.

E4M9 and MAP14

Off the top of my head, I liked the discordant layout of House of Pain. However, Unholy Cathedral was pretty memorable too.

Doom 2 city levels (other than MAP14) definitely don't have good architecture. They're supposed to depict cities on Earth, so the quality of their architecture should be possible to determine by how well they would serve to inhabitants. I take that Doom is semi-realistic, but even when I utilize high level of abstraction, I must say that MAP12 is a bad architected factory, MAP13 is bad architected city, etc. Buildings have too illogical indoors and entrances. MAP14 is probably the best of these maps if you imagine it as a ruined castle. I like its architecture and how it works for a well playable level AND could work for a real ruined castle too. I agree, it has the best architecture from Doom 2.

E2M2 has well distinguished storage rooms, machinery halls, service tunnels, common corridors and "lobby" in the middle - I would say the architecture is good from a pragmatic standpoint. I also enjoy moving and looking around the map. I really consider its architecture good, even best from Doom 1.

Techbases (like those in Doom's E1) are architecturally varied and interesting, the problem is that their abstraction makes them feel generic. Still, I really enjoy techbase maps and I find the theme appealing. I just can't easily pick anything that would architecturally stand out as a thing that helps making the map feel excellent on the whole.

TraceOfSpades said:

Out of Doom and Doom 2, which map do you think had the best architecture and why?

For me, it's E1M2 Nuclear Plant. Every time I think of Doom, that's the map that comes to mind.

I'm inclined to agree, but I'm also really fond of Pandemonium for the reasons I actually described in my third novella, which pretty much summed up how I feel every time I play it: It’d been designed with childhood nightmares in mind: those hideous dreamscapes where every turn is a wrong turn, and the monsters always know where you are, and you can’t get away from them because you keep going in circles.