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TheUltimateDoomer666

How big are the Lost Souls?

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What is the "actual" size of the Lost Soul supposed to be? Because of the size of the sprites, I always assumed they were pretty large; around the size of a human's whole body. In Brutal Doom however, when the DoomGuy grabs a Lost Soul with his hand, they are shown to be much closer to the size of a human skull.

Did id intend for the LS to be the size of a human skull, and did they simply use larger sprites so that more detail would be visible? Or is Brutal Doom's LS size interpretation incorrect?

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Brutal Doom is Brutal Doom. Sergeant_Mark_IV's interpretation is just the personal interpretation of a single fan, and should not be taken as "actual" in any way.

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What do they look like when you play vanilla co-op and a fellow player stands next to a lost soul? Whatever it looks like, that's the correct scale :P

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Yep, the original scale is what has seemed most reasonable to me. I just find it odd that Mark IV interpreted them as somehow being a lot smaller. But then again, Mark IV does odd stuff in general.

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Well, they were also smaller in Doom 3, weren't they?

ATTENTION 11 YEAR OLD SPOILER INCOMING.

We meet the first one jumping out of a female scientist's head. Perhaps Mark thought it was a more reasonable size.

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TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

What is the "actual" size of the Lost Soul supposed to be?

According to the Wiki, they're the same height and width as the player, though that's probably a carry over from the beta lost souls which were always at head height.

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Ever since I found out they were souls I just thought they were a representation of a soul from hell, so I guess the size they are in the game is their actual size.

Now that you mention it though, they are kinda big...

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I always assumed they're a human skull. Of course why would a human skull be alive? Its probably a demon skull size.

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1. If the lost souls were scaled accurate with a human skull, you wouldn't be able to tell it apart from a revenant missile

2. The lost souls' attacks depend on charging at the player. A tiny skull sprite probably wouldn't even look like its biting you before you get hit, and the detailed resolution it does have helps it to look more scary when it takes up more screen space when you get hit.

3. Lost souls seem more like having paranormal qualities (the way they float around and are quiet) than being "real." Like ghosts if you will. So I don't think their actual proportions really matter.

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Assuming they couldn't simply scale them down without scaling the actual graphic down and losing detail, it's possible that they simply wanted to retain the detail of the skull so that's why they made it much larger than it logically would be. That could also explain why the Revanant is so unusually tall but, hey, that's JUST a theory!

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MetroidJunkie said:

Assuming they couldn't simply scale them down without scaling the actual graphic down and losing detail, it's possible that they simply wanted to retain the detail of the skull so that's why they made it much larger than it logically would be. That could also explain why the Revanant is so unusually tall but, hey, that's JUST a theory!

Exactly. The revenant most likely started with the idea of a human-scale skeleton enemy. The fact it's the same height as the player and zombies is a supporting piece of evidence (albeit weak since id was lazy with heights in general, but I digress).

Take a look at the early scans from Fuzzy Pumper Palette Shop though and you'll see that it would have looked like complete and total shit if they'd scaled it down that far. Doom's sprites are just too low-res to do stuff like skulls and skeletons without making them larger than life.

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geo said:

I always assumed they're a human skull. Of course why would a human skull be alive? Its probably a demon skull size.

It's got horns, so it's not human.

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I just assumed they were physical manifestations of evil forces and not accurate representations of skulls in regard to size. Like evil takes shape and it chose a flaming horned skull.

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Judging from the names I once speculated they were actually human souls condemned to hell, mindless beasts forced to take on physical form and operating on base aggressive instincts. As for the Pain Elemental, it is essentially a mobile organic torture chamber, holding thousands of captive, swallowed Lost Souls within his guts where they are tormented perpetually, only occasionally released from the horror to perform service to their dark slavemasters.

As for why they have horns, it's so that demons can torment them with corny jokes like "Man, you sure seem horny today!"

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TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

did they simply use larger sprites so that more detail would be visible?

IMO it's partly that and partly to make them bigger targets because, remember, people were not used to aiming quickly with the mouse.

If you replace the lost soul sprites with, say, a skull key or an armor bonus (to give examples of things that are closer to being Doomguy-head-sized) and adjust their height and radius accordingly (with dehacked or whatever), then try to play through a level with a lot of them like E3M2, you'll probably find them more annoying than usual. For bonus points, try keyboard-only.

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Ragnor said:

Eris, wtf, not a shot of the better ones from RoE?

The screaming human heads were way better than the "baby want bwanky" skull versions they pushed to pacify fanboys.

Gez said:

For bonus points, try keyboard-only.

We're only human.

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I've always assumed they are just human skulls, but game mechanics makes them bigger (easier to see sprites, easier to hit, etc).

Also, just because they look bigger than human skulls in game doesn't mean that they really are. Look at the Revenant. He's about twice the height of the player according to the sprites but his actual hitbox is only that of the player. x)

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We already have Cacodemons as giant floating heads, so Lost Souls are simply another kind of floating head. I don't think they're as big as humans; it's their flames which add to the size. You probably can make a Cyberdemon-sized monster with Lost Soul head

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All of y'all saying they are human skulls are forgetting they have gigantic horns. Clearly if they even are human souls reduced to mindless beasts by their un-living conditions, their appearance is some sort of supernatural manifestation. I mean, they fly and are on fire, why would they have to be actual skulls despite all that jankiness?

Also,

Technician said:

The screaming human heads were way better than the "baby want bwanky" skull versions they pushed to pacify fanboys.

complete and total agreement. I love the doom 3 reinterpretation. Not as a "that's what lost souls should be from now on" (which I feel was offending fans as a motion), but as a different take on a basic premise of a flying flamin' head. But I generally really like all sorts of reboots, reinterpretations, reimaginings etc.

I wonder if Doom 4 will have another reimagined lost soul or if it's just gonna be a flying skull on fire again.

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I guess I'm alone in liking and preferring the Forgotten One. To me, the Doom 3 lost soul's sound effects are grating, and its attack coding is cheap as hell. The Forgotten One fixed both of these issues. Plus you can carry them around with the grabber gun, which is fun :P

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I always pictured Lost Souls as being around watermelon size. Like, bigger than a human skull, but not hugely bigger.

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Linguica said:

I always pictured Lost Souls as being around watermelon size. Like, bigger than a human skull, but not hugely bigger.


That's very specific. Now what kind of watermelon are you talking about though? Are we going with your everyday typical watermelon, or more along the lines of the Golden Midget variety, or even those square Japanese ones? I'm so hungry I can eat a Lost Soul, er, ah a Watermelon.

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