Disappointed with the monster designs

Doom 3 had it's share of problems but it had a striking visual design. Say what you want about Doom 3 monsters but they are as iconic as their classic counterparts. Being too different from the classic designs is the only problem (for some) with them. They're different but they're just as good. Remember when you saw a new half-mechanized pinky in that old E3 2002 demonstration. Or nazi-inspired tentacled commando. Or lost soul that is a creepy woman doll-like face. Mancubus with trunks. Creepy half-baby half-fly cherub. 10-eyed Evangelion inspired imp. Even fat zombie looked genuinely creepy. Doom 3 monsters were striking, alien, anything but generic.

Generic is what I feel about Doom 4 monsters. They looks like Gears of War rejects. And overall game looks like Halo. New Cyberdemon looks just silly compared to awe-inspired Doom 3 cybie. They returned classic Cacodemon design which I admit looks better than Doom 3 one but that's it.

My favorite so far is the revenant. But it's hard to match Adrian Carmack's work (or whoever was responsible in the past games - Andy Chang? Actually I think he still works there).

Well, what do you want us to do about it?

I like the caco, the revvie, the zombies (the ones in that one HD screenshot with a caco in the steel mill - there seemed to be cyclops and skull-headed variations), I also think I like the imps and hell knights - I especially enjoy the lighter head on the hell knights, like it's their exposed skull or something like that, very gross-looking and I love it.

The cyber needs to fucking go, that's true. I also am not a fan of the neon green futuristic Mancubus, although the demon parts of him are superb - the tech parts are really meh. Whatever that fucker was that kept running away from the player in the hell level - the one with a glowy orange back - also seemed meh. But I have no idea who he even is, maybe his neonness is more fitting than I imagine.

I believe that once we are more used to them, see them more clearly and just... more of them in different videos, screenshots and the like, they'll grow to be nearly as iconic. It's all too new to determine if they are memorable yet, IMO.

Piper Maru said:

Well, what do you want us to do about it?

Obviously we need to get everyone to share the same exact view, and then we can march on Id and demand all the necessary changes.

I like it for the most part.

They really should have fans vote on things the second they finish them so they don't waste time making something we don't like. Sort of like a doomacracy.

Caco looks cool, I'm pretty indifferent on everything else. Maybe if I saw a still close up of a Baron I'd be all high on him too.

geo said:

They really should have fans vote on things the second they finish them so they don't waste time making something we don't like. Sort of like a doomacracy.

But then there would be no surprises. Plus, looking at the polarization and division present in this forum, there's no way we would ever come to consensus.

I hope those were just placeholder enemies in terms of looks, but why would they ever do that?

I've said time and time again a lot of the enemies look very similar. I can see why they didn't go with a brown imp, but they're pretty light skinned. I know racism, apparently I must like shooting imp people.

There's just not much of a difference in terms of looks in that first demo level.

I like my barons with horns, but you know as long as barons have horns and hell knights don't. I can live with one or the other not having them.

Mancubus just looks too tall and narrow in my opinion, but they probably want to make sure he's seen in a distance. Green fireballs indicate its a Mancubus rather than just having big fireballs.

Caco looks awesome as we all know. Revenant I'm happy with and he's even mobile now.

For the most part I'm really happy with the monster designs. They took some inspiration from Doom 3 (Imp, Hell Knight), recreated some of the more cartoonish original Doom designs in a convincing way (Cacodemons, Revenant), and introduce some cool new designs (demonic mutant freaks).

The only design I really dislike is the Cyberdemon. Looks really generic and stupid. World of Warcraft meets Duke Nukem Forever...

Piper Maru said:

Well, what do you want us to do about it?

Start your modelling tools and create replacement models! ;)

Orchid87 said:

Or nazi-inspired tentacled commando.

To my eyes, the shirtless tentacle commandos always seemed silly looking, and it'd very hard for me to consider them seriously 'iconic'. For all the great designs, like the pinky, imp, and hellknight, there were some forgettable ones, like the wraith, maggot, and archvile. While I'd rate the overall art in that game as great, I never fell in love with the Doom 3 designs for the zsecs, revenant, cyberdemon, or cacodemon, either.

I think the new cyberdemon looks at least as interesting as that big goofy dinosaur guardian thing with the seekers.

geo said:

Revenant I'm happy with and he's even mobile now.

He did always seem faster and a tad more badass than the rest, what with the running and punches and all. They're making him a full on futuristic demon commando ninja and I for one love it.

Tetzlaff said:

The only design I really dislike is the Cyberdemon. Looks really generic and stupid. World of Warcraft meets Duke Nukem Forever...

Seriously. He stands out so much, and looks like some sort of skyrim dragon figurine rather than anything actually evil and sinister. I wonder if he'll ever be as scary as the original one could be.

Mithran Denizen said:

I never fell in love with the Doom 3 designs for the zsecs, revenant, cyberdemon, or cacodemon, either.

I think the new cyberdemon looks at least as interesting as that big goofy dinosaur guardian thing with the seekers.

I could never make out what the fuck that guardian even looked like. And I always forget he even exists in that game.
The doom 3 revenant on the other hand was awesome IMO. That translucent flesh was a cool idea.

Looked like a good blend of Doom/Doom 64/Doom 3?? Not sure what bigger expecations you had, but can't make everyone happy I guess.

I'm pretty sure the Revenant does a flying spinning kick at one point in the Hell footage. I loved that, it was an awesome way to expand on the Revenant's goofy melee attacks. It'll probably never live up to the hilarious sound effects the original makes, though.

esselfortium said:

I'm pretty sure the Revenant does a flying spinning kick at one point in the Hell footage. I loved that, it was an awesome way to expand on the Revenant's goofy melee attacks. It'll probably never live up to the hilarious sound effects the original makes, though.

That looked like a jetpack malfunction after being shot by the player.

esselfortium said:

I'm pretty sure the Revenant does a flying spinning kick at one point in the Hell footage. I loved that, it was an awesome way to expand on the Revenant's goofy melee attacks. It'll probably never live up to the hilarious sound effects the original makes, though.

I thought he showed that goofy humor we all love from it when he did the fatality. It was like "my my what have we here, SURPRISE!"

Buckshot said:

Not sure what bigger expecations you had, but can't make everyone happy I guess.

Maybe nostalgia. I just remember that E3 2002 bathroom scene where we saw D3 pinky for the first time.

https://youtu.be/BXzJ0wFj-ag?t=7m46s

Doom 4 presentation had no such jaw dropping moments. When they showed D4 cybie I facepalmed hard.

Orchid87 said:

That looked like a jetpack malfunction after being shot by the player.

I hope not. I want flying kung-fu skeletons.

Orchid87 said:

https://youtu.be/BXzJ0wFj-ag?t=7m46s

Doom 4 presentation had no such jaw dropping moments. When they showed D4 cybie I facepalmed hard.

I've actually somehow managed to entirely avoid that video up until now. Watched it for the first time just now... for how much I love Doom 3, that video is super goofy and downright stupid at points. Those animations, those voices, the steam on the pistol, the fucking commandos going "Mortal!" and especially the two of them walking together when one stops and informs the other that he smells fear... that Pinkie lovingly caressing the fat zombie... the player pretending to hide from that scripted hell knight... holy shit, people took this seriously? I guess just because of the then-new engine and the sheer novelty of having a new Doom...

I am pleased with monster design except cyberdemon in my opinion he is too big and colors on him should be diffrent more black and red. He looks better in the first teaser.

I'm unsure about the cyberdemon as well. I like his rock texture, it almost seems like he's some kind of weird mountain creature. Kind of cool. But something about it...I dunno. I guess it is kinda Warcraft-y, but I'm not really familiar with the franchise.

I don't like it either. Out of all the new monsters he is my least favorite.

Cyberdemon does look like its visiting from Evolve.

Doom 4 is uniting the doom community like never before.

A lot of the monster designs are actually growing on me.

The new Imp actually has spikes and I quite like their quill-like features - keeps the agile style of the Doom 3 Imp, while making it sleeker and more like its classic counterpart (while still updating its look). My only slight problem with it is its head as it makes it look like a small Hell Knight (but I guess the intention is to make them related?).

The Hell Knight itself I don't have a direct problem with as such, but it really depends on whether or not they're going to include a Baron of Hell that looks more classic Doom inspired, in which case I'm totally cool with them reusing the Doom 3 Hell Knight design, especially as the new Hell Knight can move faster and rush the player (which I think the Doom 3 Hell Knight should have been able to).

I love the new Cacodemon. I really couldn't ask for a more Cacodemon-looking updated design that manages to look evil and since my favorite Cacodemon has always been the original, this works out great for me.

And this may sound like sacrilege, but I'm really starting to think the new Mancubus is going to be my favorite Mancubus design ever (I never was that big of a fan of the original - big fat bald dude with flamethrower arms, had memorable sound effects tho).
This one looks a lot more demonic than any previous version (yes, even more so than the horned Doom 64 version) and the decision to make it fire green flames works for me too (adds to the feeling of it having unstable chemicals inside its body and using it to fuel its weapons).

The Cyber-Demon, I don't really dig. Didn't like its shape in last year's teaser either, but I guess you can't win 'em all.

Now the question is if we'll be seeing an Arachnotron and/or a Spider Mastermind - I really missed those in Doom 3.

it does seems that some of those monster resemble more generic cool alien creature, and while they could still be considered good, they have nothing to do with demon and satanic's personification, the hell knight for example is to much of an alien than a demon to be honest, the first has horns, hair and hooves the other not...

I actually like all the monster designs. Maybe they're not outright original, but I feel they work. I'm glad some of the monsters have designs reminiscent of their original incarnations, a nice nod to the previous games. I don't know why the art designers feel the need to stray away from stereotypical "demonic" elements for the creatures, but I still get the impression they're demons. It's fair to say the demons of Doom come in all shapes and sizes, and that's fine too. I'm actually quite excited to see what else is in store for us. I like the modified Doom 3 Hell Knight design a lot actually, a hulking creature that moves fast and can tear you in half like wet paper towel, holy shit!

Hugo Martin might have done great job with Pacific RIm...but why on earth id hired him? Did PR look any close to satanic aesthetics???

Piper Maru said:

I'm actually quite excited to see what else is in store for us.

Same here. The ones we've seen all seem different enough, so maybe among the remaining ones there isn't another fuckup like the cyber.

The designs look like some gears of war locusts, especially the cyberdemon. They should be disgusting monsters, not look cool.

The best id game that combines pace + horror-dark tone and disgusting monsters for its time in my opinion was Quake 1.

Kaskaum said:

They should be disgusting monsters, not look cool.

But according to that spokesman guy, doom is all about killing badass demons while moving fast! Would he lie to us?