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sudo459

Discussion on Pacing in Doom

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I feel this is a topic that doesn't get enough love, so I'd like to start a discussion here.

I posted in the nominations thread regarding the pacing of Valiant:

If we are still talking about Valiant, I'd like to know what people thought about it's pacing. I'm not a fan of the constant action levels, which is what most of Valiant is. As much fun as I had, I had to take breaks. I feel like it could've broken the action up with some different areas more. The best parts of it to me was when it did. At least the levels weren't too long.


I got a reply from scifista42:

I thought the pacing was excellent, and I was glad for the (relative) lack of boring action-less moments. Valiant is a fun & challenge oriented wad, I'm playing it because I want action, and when I stop wanting action, I can take a break from playing myself. I also don't think the action was truly "constant". It was broken by action-less moments - just enough.


I think you are implying that I didn't play it for the action. Of course I did, Doom's an action game. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "boring action-less moments". Are you saying pauses in the action are out of place? I'll disagree with you. Breaks in the action are not only not boring, but essential. Again, I had to take breaks. Not because it was difficult, mind you but, because the levels themselves don't offer them.

I want to discuss this because I see it in alot of doom levels. It's something I feel Valiant suffers from as well as most of the more modern wads. Don't get me wrong, I do indeed like it.

For example, map 20 has a distinct lack of save spaces for the player to catch their breath, though the yellow key area is a good little break. Its a spot away from the action that allows a quick break, but also tells the player to get ready. But, up to that point the action is constant. Map 22 however is a great example of good pacing. Every time you find a key and make it back to the hub area, the action pauses while you collect your bearings. It just seems like these areas are too few and far between in some of the levels.

It seems to be a reoccurring trend in expressionistic maps to have a constant flow of action, to the point that it's unfathomable to break it up in anyway shape or form. Maybe these types of maps just aren't my style.

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I like valiant but i personally didn't care for the type of gameplay it had either. Most maps i really enjoy have 3-5 short (but not instantaneous) waves of high intensity adrenaline rush peaks, divided by longer (but far from interminable) exploratory chill out zones with some occasional monsters here and there to help guide you in the right direction. I think the scale of intensity going from real low, to crazy high is an important part of capturing the two dominant feelings in doom, deadly blood bath, and suspenseful uncertainty.

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I agree with what you said man; it's very important to have some breaks in the action, but with anything that has the possibility of coming across as lazy, it must be done right. Like making a section of map with no monsters, but a really cool atmosphere. I would assume, however, that most people look at Doom as something to be rushed. That's why so many people look at the speedruns, it's a good measurement of your skill. I'm different on that, I prefer to play slowly, take as little damage as possible, and set myself up the best for the next level, even if I am just gonna pistol-start it. I'm a conservationist I guess, lol.

But when I design a map, I'll admit that I am guilty of trying to pack in the action. I almost always repopulate areas when it is madatory that it be revisited, too, as that's when people are most likely to try and run through everything. But I really like the idea of putting in small sections of a map with no monsters to serves as opportunities to catch your breath and get your bearings.

If this is something you put into your own maps, I'd like to give em a shot.

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I don't even think a new area is needed to create this type of dynamic. Clearing an area of enemies and then going through it again to collect the items is a good example of this type of pacing. Or, after an intense fight, an area with fighting, but of a more methodical style.

I just replayed map 16, and it's a good example of what I was talking about in my first post. The first area isn't too intensive, but it leads straight into the next fight. After you kill the dual archviles in the next part, you are tempted to go up the hill to collect the items up there. This would be a perfect time for a short break, but no, its yet again another ambush. I think the flow of the map would have been greatly enhanced by moving these guys back so there is a second or two delay before you fight them.

-Edit: Haha, yes, that's something I'm guilty of as well. I'm experimenting with such things in my maps.

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sudo459 said:

I just replayed map 16, and it's a good example of what I was talking about in my first post. The first area isn't too intensive. After you kill the dual archviles, you are tempted to go up the hill to collect the items up there. This would be a perfect time for a short break, but no, its an ambush. I think the flow of the map would have been greatly enhanced by moving these guys back so there is a second or two delay before you fight them.

But then you would be able to run forward to escape the archviles without fighting them too easily, or snipe them from the above place, both of which would render the AV-ambush inefficient. Skillsaw also claimed that he deliberately tried to keep the player moving and disallow camping from a cover, as he considered these to be very positive qualities of good gameplay, and I completely agree.

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No, you don't understand what I meant. I didn't mean safe zone that allow the player to snipe from. I also didn't mean that the player has to stop moving for there to be a lull in the action.

Also, I don't see how hard it would be to have the archviles still be able to attack you, and still give the player a second or two break moving up the hill.

I do agree with skillsaw as well, I really think I'm not being clear somehow.

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