Ultimate Doom demos [-complevel 3]

It affects the route for the worse. If M8 doesn't count the time, then why do it? Just end the run at map 7. Foregoing munitions for the last map just because "it doesn't count" is not a speed run in my opinion. Old Compet-n runs have bad routes, plain and simple.

In my opinion, the best option here is to have competition for two runs m1-m7 and m1-m8, but I don't think the old runs should be retimed to a new convention.

They're not bad, they just were designed for the best m1-m7 time, which was the rule at the moment. I would also like to see m8 as a part of the run, but if my choices are to do the new e3m1-e3m8 run or to compete with kimo_xvirus's e3m1-e3m7 run, I'll go with the second, as it offers way more challenge.

4shockblast said:

In my opinion, the best option here is to have competition for two runs m1-m7 and m1-m8, but I don't think the old runs should be retimed to a new convention.

No, retiming them wouldn't make sense. Promoting a restart of the category with m8 included is better, imo. Kind of like when they had to shift the balance of javelins in athletics because athletes began throwing them dangerously near the end of the grassy bits of stadiums, heh.

I think this discussion is pointless, it's not like there is a lot of activity regarding these episode runs anyways. Nobody wants to see great records like E3 UV by kimo be replaced by some trash that picks up BFG and overall saves a few seconds.

E2 NM has been easily improveable for a long time, as shown by eLim, the only other episode runs that have been improved in the last few years are E2 and E4 on UV. I haven't really seen a single person that actually runs doom 1 episodes ask for M8 time to count...

Besides, DSDA already lists the total time including M8, so if someone gets the record but it's overall slower it might be ignored by someone looking for it there, and also making as overall good looking demo as possible should be reason enough for someone to put some effort into M8.

Also the argument for counting M8 because we can could also be made for milliseconds.

Pointless is such a strong word. I don't expect things to change on my whim (or any time soon), but probing the wider public's stance shouldn't hurt. And low activity is hardly a matter given Doom's lifespan... I mean, how long were those record in place before you guys started grinding the runs? And it's not like we're not sneakily introducing subtle rule breaches already, the death slide in pl's Compound is technically inelligible under old C-N rules, hehe.

ZeroMaster010 said:

Also the argument for counting M8 because we can could also be made for milliseconds.

Is that a bad thing?

NoobBait said:

Is that a bad thing?

No, but I've never seen anyone ask for milliseconds to count, the reason M8 and milliseconds don't count I assume is the same reason, which is that it doesn't show in vanilla. So if M8 is going to count we might as well do the same for milliseconds.

I'm curious about one thing Dew, when was the last time someone actually changed any rules? and also, who has the "authority" to do so now? I assume that if enough people agreed it would just be some separate category on DSDA, but the fastest time with M8 is already included anyways in this case.

You don't drastically change your route or strategy based on milliseconds, though.......

ZeroMaster010 said:

Nobody wants to see great records like E3 UV by kimo be replaced by some trash that picks up BFG and overall saves a few seconds.

I do.

Kpa6 said:

Also, eLim, in the txt you have Guiddqd's best times, not actual times.

lol whoops! Here's a version with the corrected txt file


Edit: My m8 was intentionally bad because I kinda wanted this point to get brought up. I'd love for m8 to emerge as a separate category, in my opinion. It leaves the "prestige" or w/e of the current records in their place, and allows the rest of us to go for runs more appropriate for the sourceports we commonly use now.

e2nm0431.zip

j4rio said:

I do.

Same. Whether or not Kimo's time is regarded as a "record" isn't really important. His run is pretty great for what it is, but what it is is arbitrary.

I don't want to see Kimo's or Vile's records replaced. They may be arbitrary by today's standards, but they are not arbitrary by the conventions that they used (which made sense when they were created). I still think separate categories is the best option.

BFG takes 2 seconds to pick up, so if I'm not completely wrong you can afford to lose as much as 18 seconds on E3M1-E3M7.

I will correct myself, since people do want to watch it apparently:
There's nothing impressive about a run that beats Kimo's E3 with BFG, unless of course E3M1-E3M7 is actually really solid, instead of "free record" because you grabbed the BFG and ran straight towards the mastermind and pressed fire......

4shockblast said:

I still think separate categories is the best option.

Or have two 'final' times display for episodic d1 runs on dsda. One that counts e8 into final time and second that doesn't.

j4rio said:

Or have two 'final' times display for episodic d1 runs on dsda. One that counts e8 into final time and second that doesn't.

That would make sense, considering DSDA already orders them by m8 time, right?

ZeroMaster010 said:

I'm curious about one thing Dew, when was the last time someone actually changed any rules? and also, who has the "authority" to do so now? I assume that if enough people agreed it would just be some separate category on DSDA, but the fastest time with M8 is already included anyways in this case.

CN rules are monolythical, I don't think we'll see any change on that front. It's tied to Adam Hegyi's legacy and no one dared to fill in his shoes as the ultimate authority. Now the new CN encapsulates the old one while introducing some long-sought for changes for the restarted tables and it's here where I'd welcome the m8 reform, not by rewriting the old records. As for its authority, fx presents the new rules on the site, but Sedlo especially is a voice in his ear. That's a heavy enough authority for most.

Now if you're asking specifically about the DSDA, it is very accepting and Andy tries to reflect "trends" in the community, but the massive database is a huge technical hurdle. Restructuring it from the ground, because UV Speeds cannot use the chaingun now would be a massive time sink, so new stuff is more or less piled on the old rather than meticulously systemized and recategorized.

As for general debates here... well, the voice of reason has the authority. :) In practice seniority and veteran status seem to matter, as does the *cough* forum caretaker status. Grazza and myk were respected scholars for long years and those are big shoes to fill, so I and vdgg aren't planning on doing any sudden radical moves, heh. Conservative, glacial evolution after endless talks is the norm anyways.

Tl;dr there's no clearly defined inner sanctum or lodge of the elders, changes come when a critical mass of influence is reached.

Episode 1 UV-Tyson movie in 34:18

ep1t3418.zip

dew said:

And it's not like we're not sneakily introducing subtle rule breaches already, the death slide in pl's Compound is technically inelligible under old C-N rules, hehe.

I've heard this said before but never knew much about it. Care to elaborate about the old rules a little bit?

I think it isn't true.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/405332

I recall Vile avoided the pl17 death slide in a movie run because he thought it wasn't allowed in a movie run (specifically), but AdamH clarified that it was OK.

Been working on this for a couple of weeks and I finally got a satisfactory exit. There's a couple wall bumps and general slop due to nerves, but I'm happy enough with the time, so here's babby's first episode run.

Feedback appreciated.

e2nm-0351.zip

I like using compet-n time in a non compet-n run, neat.

Either way, a nice clean run overall, even if the final map wasn't fantastic.

Nice run!

I assume you planned to use plasma at the start of M6 :)

One possibility is to try to go for the void glide backwards, while you are killing the demons or what ever else is coming your way. Intresting way of doing the switch press, I had no idea you could press it by actually moving away from it. I felt it might be slightly better than moving against the other wall, but not a huge difference since it should be just as precise. Perhaps it's easier to make more precise movements your way so it makes it easier, nice find!

That RJ setup didn't look very easy, I'm not sure how often you make the jump though. There should be some easy setup for it from standing still to using SR50 with a good time window to hit the rocket.

And I for one don't care at all about M8 time :)

E3M1 UV -Fast in 2:03

e3m1fast-203.zip

E2M1 UV -Fast in 3:26

e2m1fast-326.zip

Episode 1 UV-Speed in 4:57 (6:08 including E1M8)

This is a 3 second improvement over E1M1-E1M7 time, and 9 second faster than E1M1-E1M8 time by stx-Vile.

The previous record stood for over 10 years!

Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdNBxaajdCQ

I've already posted quite a few threads for my demos, so I don't want to do that too often, but this demo is probably the best I've made after 30pn\30uv.

Now I am missing the ep3 record, but I don't think I want to put myself through such misery anytime soon (because of E3M1).

ep1-0457.zip

Wow, good job!

ZeroMaster010 said:

Now I am missing the ep3 record, but I don't think I want to put myself through such misery anytime soon (because of E3M1).

I Lied.

Episode 3 UV-Speed in 3:47 (4:42 including E1M8)

This is a 1 second improvement over E3M1-E3M7 time, and 23 seconds slower(!) than E3M1-E3M8 time by Kimo Xvirus.

Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbR5hHkTxo0

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, E3M1-E3M8 is easily improvable by simply grabbing BFG on E3M3. That would probably add 3 seconds to E3M3 while E3M8 would be done in 9 seconds (so sub 4 minutes is not too hard)

To be honest I didn't think I would actually bother with this episode, but this run isn't as bad as expected when you learn how to move through it and manipulate the monsters. It does require some luck, but mostly at the very start (E3M1).

Not that it matters, but I now have all ultimate doom UV-speed episode records as well as doom2, plutonia and TNT UV-speed d2all records. I like to think about the same for NM, but due to a map called stronghold I don't see that happening. I might look into ultimate doom NM episodes at some point though.

ep3-0347.zip

I'm gone for 2 weeks and ZM takes the remaining IWAD UV-Speed movies.

Nice job man, you're a freak!

Well, we've turned our back as a community and watched zeromaster take all our uv-speeds.

Shockblast this is a job for you, kidding aside well played zeromaster.