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Buckshot

Monsters that don't exist in DOOM... but should.

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The monster's and hellspawn within the DOOM universe we've all come to know and love are obvious insta-classics... it seems with nearly every generation of DOOM, they make their return with a few minor alterations and some minor additions.. though I'm curious to see what others might think be fitting, missing, or enhanced designs of those currently present (and NO, I don't want to hear about how out of place the new Cyberdemon looks in DOOM 4... I think that's been argued to death already).

I've always pictured a mini-vile... a creature that doesn't "rescurrect" the fallen demons via standing over them and summoning back to life exactly like a arch-vile... but rather a much smaller, troll-like thing that "reanimates" the dead in the immediate area, and "jumps" from body to body until each victim it resurrect and possess is gibbed (not just slain, but gibbed). it moves at a ludacrious speed, and if no dead enemies are present to assimilate with, it attempts to assimilate with the player, and explodes (as it can only assimilate with the dead), causing serious damage. It can be killed as its speeding between resurrected monsters as quick as you can kill, and continues to do so until all possessed are gibbed (causing a insane chain reaction as it hops from body to body, and then finally at you until you either kill it (difficult due to it's ludacrious speed) or it explodes in an attempt to consume you).

kill one guy, it escapes and goes to the next dead body, kill that guy, goes to the next body, so on and so forth until all bodies are gibbed... then pops out and leaps at you with extraordinary speed in an attempt to possess you. I'm sure you get what I mean. Kind of how like the alien in "The Thing" spreads, but small like a xenomorph chestburster, and about that speed.

edit: you could tell the difference between these "possessed" resurrected hellspawn as their eyes would glow red and they'd come back fast monsters until gibbed.

Your thoughts/ideas?

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The Wraith from Doom 3 would have been neat to see in the classic games. A teleporting monster that can gap close faster than you would be pretty terrifying. Although the Doom 3 one usually teleported within Shotgun distance, the Realm 667 version of the Wraith attacks as soon as it teleports, so while you can kill it quickly, you will take damage if moving at it or standing still. Having him in Classic Doom would guarantee that you have to keep moving, because standing still would get you slashed.

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Your posession idea would fit in ZDoom more than Doom, it's too complicated for the AI. In this vein, I'd also propose a monster that can clone itself as a decoration or item. Player goes close ... it reverts to its normal form and starts scrrrratching :-D

As for classic Doom, I'd like to see a variant of the Hell Knight that tries to lead the player (shoot where the player will be, not where he is) or occasionally fire off two projectiles in a slight arc, using both his hands. Or a variant of the Demon that explodes if it reaches the player or else a couple of seconds after it's been killed.

Or a variant of the Imp that when spawned is either faster-firing, faster-moving or has more HP. Randomly.

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VGA said:

Your posession idea would fit in ZDoom more than Doom, it's too complicated for the AI. In this vein, I'd also propose a monster that can clone itself as a decoration or item. Player goes close ... it reverts to its normal form and starts scrrrratching :-D



What about one that can clip through certain types of walls, or hides in walls. Would have made Plutonia's "Hunted" map a hell of a lot more interesting.

Or lava/slime monsters, that reach up or bite your ankles :P

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Buckshot said:

What about one that can clip through certain types of walls, or hides in walls. Would have made Plutonia's "Hunted" map a hell of a lot more interesting.

Or lava/slime monsters, that reach up or bite your ankles :P

That's be sweet. Maybe for ZDoom, have one that tries to pull you under and drown you (or do damage in a damaging floor sector).

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A Revenant with a jetpack and little golden revenants that run towards the player and beat them to death.

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Clonehunter said:

The Wraith from Doom 3 would have been neat to see in the classic games.


Whaat if the wraith teleports and also opens a brief netherworld portal that more enemies can come through. Of course, might as well be a entirely new enemy... like a "gatekeeper" or something.

Guess that could be achieved by creating boxes of enemies outside the main map, and tag a linedef to activate & teleport them once crossed and some script and art for the portal (which is the opposite end of the teleport function) so they teleport right in front of it. With arch-viles flame sequence and animation, that might be possible.

Be a lot cooler than a Doom 3-style "warp in", anywho.

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Me and my brother talked about an Arch-vile "acolyte", like an archvile, but not as big and threatening, moves a bit slower, can't resurrect as fast, and can't do the dangerous spell we've all known and loved. Instead, perform some sort of less dangerous spell, tho we aren't quite sure what. Anything that makes that high level boss monster to a medium or lower tier monster.

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Clonehunter said:

The Wraith from Doom 3 would have been neat to see in the classic games. A teleporting monster that can gap close faster than you would be pretty terrifying. Although the Doom 3 one usually teleported within Shotgun distance, the Realm 667 version of the Wraith attacks as soon as it teleports, so while you can kill it quickly, you will take damage if moving at it or standing still. Having him in Classic Doom would guarantee that you have to keep moving, because standing still would get you slashed.


Someone in fact created the Wraith for the classic Dooms. You can find the resource in Realm 667. It's pretty awesome too, fast, crazy screams and even teleports.

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I think a spectre-like zombie with a chainsaw that does more damage than a spectre would be cool. You could see it when it attacks and it's louder than the spectre when moving because of the chainsaw (you hear the rumbling as he walks closer to you)

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A fire-breathing Godzilla that you can hear stomping around like the Cyber but also with that familiar roar and you know that you're in for the final boss battle of your life.

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An actual Icon of Sin monster, there's suppose to be sprites that exist of that somewhere. I know it was featured in ScoreDoom.

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Unarmed zombies who have a close-quarters attack only. Ideally ones which you kill in bits (blow limbs off, or a leg, so it crawls...)

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There is lot of creatures I would love to see in Doom3 and original Dooms:
Doom for N64 - all missing creatures from original Doom,
Doom - more different zombies, like scientist, janitors, tech-staff, they will swarm in great numbers, only male damage. Other marines that were turn into zombies, think about zombie sergeant who moves faster, do combat rolls and strafe.
Doom3 - improved zombies, they could be destructible like ones from Quake4 and Prey, loses limbs or head and still going, or lose legs and crawl in player direction. They could also learn Half-Life 2 zombies trick to pick up any items on they way and toss them at player (there were two scripted moments like this in D3). Also some of them could puke like Q4 zombies + some of them could be in some kind of trance and pretend to do they work when they were normal humans.
Doom3 - zombie marines, not zsec's, I remember to find only dead marines and at some point Bertruger start changing them into zombie commandos. It would be good to see some slow walking heavy armored zombie in green marine armor.
Doom3 - spidermastermind and demon barons with horns, classic pinky demons.

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Cyanosis said:

An actual Icon of Sin monster, there's suppose to be sprites that exist of that somewhere. I know it was featured in ScoreDoom.



Wait... wut? Where did you hear about these sprites?

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Buckshot said:

I've always pictured a mini-vile... a creature that doesn't "rescurrect" the fallen demons via standing over them and summoning back to life exactly like a arch-vile... but rather a much smaller, troll-like thing that "reanimates" the dead in the immediate area, and "jumps" from body to body until each victim it resurrect and possess is gibbed (not just slain, but gibbed)


In theory, this could be done with DEHacked, by assigning the Archvile's VileChase codepointers to the death frames of the "troll thingy". It would be limited to monsters in the usual Archvile search radius though, and it would definitively die if it found nothing suitable within reach. However the resurrected monster would just be a normal monster of its kind, not a "troll thingy" entity. However even with that limitation, it would be very annoying if those "trolls" could resurrect each other. Killing a room full of them would require some clever tactics to stop them from supporting each other.

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Maes said:

In theory, this could be done with DEHacked, by assigning the Archvile's VileChase codepointers to the death frames of the "troll thingy". It would be limited to monsters in the usual Archvile search radius though, and it would definitively die if it found nothing suitable within reach. However the resurrected monster would just be a normal monster of its kind, not a "troll thingy" entity. However even with that limitation, it would be very annoying if those "trolls" could resurrect each other. Killing a room full of them would require some clever tactics to stop them from supporting each other.



ahh. what i meant is the resurrected monsters would comeback as they were (the troll thingy inside of them is not visible) but with glowing eyes and as fast monsters. once killed, this creature does a spirit-like link to the next dead monster, reviving it, and continues to do so until all bodies are gibbed or if it's gibbed inside of a monster first. maybe it's less of a troll and more of a fast phantom-like manifestation.

there are (3) ways to kill it... direct fire as it loops around from body to body, gibbing a monster it infects if it's the only monster in the area to revive (which it escapes and then attempts to assimilate with you but explodes, or gibbing it 5 times in 5 different revived monsters (it cannot reincarnate a gibbed a monster).

killing a monster without gibbing it allows it to escape unweakened and link to the next monster, and can continue to do so over and over unless it's gibbed 5 times inside 5 different monsters (it just dies and disperses) or if less than 5 monsters available are gibbed and nothing else in the immediate area, attempts to use you as the next host, surrounding you with a spirit like aurora (or clinging to your mask like a face hugger if going with the troll idea) in which you have only have a few seconds to destroy it before it explodes.

it can be killed prior to its first assimilation, and after if it's not gibbed 5 times as its attacking you... but it's insanely fast, making a good shot a difficult one.

this creature could only infect gib-able monsters... and ignores non gibable. While that seems relatively weak.. it jumps host to host so fast as they are killed and revives them as fast monsters, it can pose a pretty serious threat in a crowded area or a trick room full of dead soldiers, sargeants, imps, chaingunners.

It's also just a mini... not a full blown archvile. So it doesn't have the power to resurrect larger demons and hellspawn. Maybe it can reanimate multiple monsters at once, and then reanimate more as you kill them (or ones you haven't gibbed). Maybe the monsters don't even need to be dead to begin with. When I picture this thing, I picture those little things that come out of the ground and give you clues in Bloodborne.

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Buckshot said:

Whaat if the wraith teleports and also opens a brief netherworld portal that more enemies can come through. Of course, might as well be a entirely new enemy... like a "gatekeeper" or something.

Guess that could be achieved by creating boxes of enemies outside the main map, and tag a linedef to activate & teleport them once crossed and some script and art for the portal (which is the opposite end of the teleport function) so they teleport right in front of it. With arch-viles flame sequence and animation, that might be possible.

Be a lot cooler than a Doom 3-style "warp in", anywho.


The Doom 3 style warp in was lame, as everything wanted t growl at you instead of attack when they spawned, giving you a convenient window to kill something in. The scripting though seems like a map by map case. It'd be more than a monster, but rather some kind of map feature. However, a monster that works specifically with linedefs and is exclusively made to trigger function could do a lot more than monster gates.


Chezza said:

Someone in fact created the Wraith for the classic Dooms. You can find the resource in Realm 667. It's pretty awesome too, fast, crazy screams and even teleports.


Yes. If you had read what you had quoted, I mentioned all of that.

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actually realm667 has a lot of the monsters proposed here, see clonehunter's post about the wraith

there's a jumping version of the demon (mauler demon i think), i remember that one from cheogsh.wad when i picked up a berserk pack in the beginning and thought "lol, pinkies", only to have one in my face the next moment.
also the blood fiend which spits hurtful blood, and a morphing one apparently made of stone.
so there's no lack of demon variants which are more capable than the regular pinkie. my favorite was the eyeless biting machine from valiant that simply chomped into my green ass without delay.

speaking of fiends, there's a version of the quake scrag, but i still miss the shambler.

flying hitscanner? try STRAIN. the DWMC is playing this month. it has flying spawn cubes that fire a chaingun like the mastermind. reactions seem to be mostly "interesting enemy, although not outstanding". gets quickly into infighting. has a bit more health than i'd prefer. the problem with flyers is that they tend to float away then hit and can be a waste of ammo and time to bring down when they're at a distance, especially without mouselook.

well there's no revenant with a jetpack yet, but a flying mancubus.

anyway, zombies that lose body parts are fun, but they're still a minor enemy that can be mown down by the dozens, doesn't really make a difference when you have anything more powerful than a shotgun.

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The shambler from Quake 1. Also +1 for the Fiend.
A basic enemy which casts a medium-size-area-of-effect spell to gradually cause damage.

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An palette-swapped Imp and a palette-swapped Noble that randomly aim off of your position, as though you were under the effects of a blur sphere.

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Found this post in a Doom 4 thread:

Clonehunter said:

I was looking at that Baron again, and I'm seeing three heads instead of horns, with the left most head being a skull, while the missile one is more Goat like, with an indiscernible third head.


I think something like this in old Doom would be cool. Maybe you need to destroy the other two heads before you can kill this demon, and each head you kill makes the monster lose an attack/makes it's attacks weaker? Very cool idea!

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I think we should focus on elements which could be coded-in at the time and would not require complex stuff like damageable sprites or require scripting that'd go beyond what would be achievable with Dehacked. E.g. the "resurrection monster" could be made to work as a kind of "resurrection bomb" when killed (e.g. resurrect two or more dead monsters in its vicinity) by simple rewiring of codepointers.

It would be also cool to see monsters with features that are common in other games but do not exist in any form in Doom, e.g. a very accurate long-range hitscanner which would give no warning (unlike the Archvile), a monster which was unvulnerable except during its attack frames, a monster which would behave like "ghost monsters" and go through closed doors and squeeze through the narrowest openings, regardless of height differences (so it could e.g. climb or descend very narrow pipes, or creep out of floor recesses.

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

My god this is super Chill .



Yep. what a badass rendition of the icon of sin. glad someone took the time to revamp it like that.

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There's probably something already like it in realm 667 but a Pinky Bruiser. Larger than a regular pinky and has all the attack behaviors of the Heretic Maulotaur. Fast Dash attack, tri fire balls, and ground flame attack.

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