Nukem is a Doom clone?

I always see people calling games like Duke Nukem 3d System Shock Blood and Dark Forces Doom clones! What the heck?

First person with a gun games = Doom clones, even wolfenstien 3D = Doom clone. Why? Because Doom is the popular one. There are a lot of Arkham game clones. The famous game is always the point of reference. I remember a podcast from GameTrailers talking about how they review a game. Wanna know how something plays? Just say a game people are familiar with and go from there.

Well it is really a matter of knowing history.
In the nineties, Doom was the de facto FPS. There were not really any term to describe this new found "genre" of game. Doom was on everyone's mind and everyone wanted to be Doom. So what ended up happening was that all FPS outside of Doom was called Doom clones. And in some ways most of them were. Duke Nukem for instance, was certainly more of a doom clone than say System Shock. Even if the term is more of a misnomer. Since development of everything is based on increments of what has already been established to work one way or another.

But it was never meant as a derogatory term in earnest. Another term that was thrown around was Shoot Em Up and eventually FPS, and more recently this has developed into being sprlit into factions of FPS like, Arena FPS, Modern Military Shooter and FPSRPG.

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_clones

kristus said:

Well it is really a matter of knowing history.
In the nineties, Doom was the de facto FPS. There were not really any term to describe this new found "genre" of game. Doom was on everyone's mind and everyone wanted to be Doom. So what ended up happening was that all FPS outside of Doom was called Doom clones. And in some ways most of them were. Duke Nukem for instance, was certainly more of a doom clone than say System Shock. Even if the term is more of a misnomer. Since development of everything is based on increments of what has already been established to work one way or another.

But it was never meant as a derogatory term in earnest. Another term that was thrown around was Shoot Em Up and eventually FPS, and more recently this has developed into being sprlit into factions of FPS like, Arena FPS, Modern Military Shooter and FPSRPG.

I like the term "action game", sounds more dignified than shooter. I thought this was the name of this genre.

But Action game is such a broad term that it can entail any game with any kind of action based game play. In such it's not descriptive enough a term for defining a genre. Genre names generally has to give some leeway. For instance, in the Arena FPS club. Doom is very much a part. But Doom is only really an Arena FPS when it is played in Deathmatch.

But it is descriptive enough to give people an idea of what the game is focused on. While Action game can be anything really.

Bloodshedder said:

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_clones

Worth linking to the full image I think.

I always thought the general idea of Doom clones was 2.5D FPS games.

fraggle said:

Worth linking to the full image I think.
http://doomwiki.org/w/images/6/64/Doom_clone_vs_first_person_shooter.png

Thanks based Uncle Fraggle.

Avoozl said:

I always thought the Doom clone definition was restricted to 2.5D FPS games.

Yeah, thats true.

geo said:

First person with a gun games = Doom clones, even wolfenstien 3D = Doom clone. Why? Because Doom is the popular one. There are a lot of Arkham game clones. The famous game is always the point of reference. I remember a podcast from GameTrailers talking about how they review a game. Wanna know how something plays? Just say a game people are familiar with and go from there.

Very true.

Avoozl said:

I always thought the Doom clone definition was restricted to 2.5D FPS games.

Only in the minds of those with any idea what that means. Kids in my class used to tell me Doom was basically the same as Wolf3D. They just remind me of the people who say Star Trek and Star Wars are the same thing.

Are you honestly surprised that FPS games with graphics, level design and combat similar to Doom are called Doom clones? I've also never heard anyone call System Shock a Doom clone. That one is a little far fetched.

SavageCorona said:

Are you honestly surprised that FPS games with graphics, level design and combat similar to Doom are called Doom clones? I've also never heard anyone call System Shock a Doom clone. That one is a little far fetched.

Agreed, I don't see why System Shock could be a DOOM clone If the gameplay Isn't even similar at all.

Avoozl said:

I always thought the Doom clone definition was restricted to 2.5D FPS games.

There's no official Doom clone definition; and the 2.5D/3D distinction was made later, largely because of Quake.

There's also no official 2.5D definition.

What? You people do not live official lives in official world? Everything needs to be categorized with descriptions.

geo said:

even wolfenstien 3D = Doom clone.

Eh, DOOM is a Wolf3d clone .

Dr radinki said:

I always see people calling games like Duke Nukem 3d System Shock Blood and Dark Forces Doom clones! What the heck?

DOOM Has been one of the very first FPS games, most of today's FPSs are based on it with few adds that make them different .

Maes, the Prophet of Doom. said:

DOOM is the LIVING LEGEND, it is the MASTER, the LORD, the GOD of video games (and not only).

Really, if DOOM is considered so “outdated”, then why does every gaming magazine and gaming company compare every DOOM clone with DOOM itself? The very same DOOM that was released in 1993 and 1994? Why did DOOM’s first serious contender, DARK FORCES (yeah, I consider THAT one as a serious opponent) has remained in the dark since it was released? Maybe because it’s IMPOSSIBLE to even touch THE GOD?

All other games will ALWAYS be called DOOM clones, to be reminded of their inferiority compared to GOD itself, DOOM!

Tritnew said:

Agreed, I don't see why System Shock could be a DOOM clone If the gameplay Isn't even similar at all.

Its not, though due to little publicity, System Shock was quickly passes of as a doom clone, that is why Through the Looking Glass Studios lost so much money on that game.

kristus said:

In the nineties, Doom was the de facto FPS. There were not really any term to describe this new found "genre" of game.

That's true. For the lack of a better word, id Software themselves described their new game as a "lightning-fast virtual reality adventure". http://www.classicdoom.com/doominfo.htm

Tetzlaff said:

That's true. For the lack of a better word, id Software themselves described their new game as a "lightning-fast virtual reality adventure".

What did they call Wolf3D then? Most of Doom's elements were there.

In other threads it was often pondered if there were any pre-Doom (and pre-Wolf3D) "first person" shooter games, that did not fall into the vehicle combat simulation genre, but instead put the player "in the shoes" and through the eyes of a man on foot (though how much that is true for Doomguy, is another story...)

If some kind of polygon-based, 3D proto-Doom existed somewhere, somehow, in other words. Well...on home computers the closest one would get would be "Castle Master", which was 3D, put the player "on foot", you (sometimes) shot at stuff...but nothing really coming close to Doom. There also was another adventure-oriented game where you played a cyber cop of some sort and walked through a polygonal landscape, but the pace couldn't really be compared to Doom or Wolf3D, and shooting at stuff wasn't your primary objective.

Speaking of the sensation of being "in one's clothes", even Wolf3D wasn't very convincing in this respect: Blaskowicz could just as well be riding on a tankette with a fixed gun, always running on level soil. Doomguy's speed could very well mean he's some sort of speedy hovercraft, too. But at least you're not actually riding a tank/mech in those game, at least according to their backstories.

ID software receives a bit to much praise by reality bending fans in terms of things they have nothing to do with. They popularized the already existing genre trough Doom, they pushed the graphical limits a few times, and thats it next to the games that where made with (new, or altered) engines derived from their quake work.


Why do metalheads make metal ? they listened to it, liked it, and wanted to make it.
Why do people make FPS games ? they liked it, had an idea, and wanted to make it.

While Following the "clone" logic every mercedes could be a clone of a toyota which in terms could be a clone of an oldsmobile which then could be a clone based upon a ford-t.

Maes said:

What did they call Wolf3D then? Most of Doom's elements were there.

In other threads it was often pondered if there were any pre-Doom (and pre-Wolf3D) "first person" shooter games, that did not fall into the vehicle combat simulation genre, but instead put the player "in the shoes" and through the eyes of a man on foot (though how much that is true for Doomguy, is another story...)

1991 - Catacomb 3D
You look trough the eyes, and walk in the shoes of the fireball shooting wizard...

Doominator2 said:

Its not, though due to little publicity, System Shock was quickly passes of as a doom clone, that is why Through the Looking Glass Studios lost so much money on that game.

I saw RPG elements In the game, actually. I really don't see anything related to DOOM what so ever, It's story heavy and way darker compared to DOOM.

Tritnew said:

I saw RPG elements In the game, actually. I really don't see anything related to DOOM what so ever, It's story heavy and way darker compared to DOOM.

Like I said, if one where to see only screenshots for the game without knowing that it had RPG elements, etc. it makes sense that one might be lead to believe that System Shock is a Doom clone.

Gez said:

There's no official Doom clone definition; and the 2.5D/3D distinction was made later, largely because of Quake.

There's also no official 2.5D definition.

Well definition was not the best term I used, maybe the "general idea" would have been better.

"Doom Clone" seems to mean "Tries to go one better than Doom by having mouselook or better graphics or semi-naked women, but is nowhere near as much fun to play".

I have tried to like Duke Nukem 3D over the years but it feels like it's trying too hard. I don't like the weapons. Also, incorporating sex into it might have been controversial and headline-grabbing, but it seems tawdry, cheap and sexist (against both genders), as if it was a bunch of teenagers releasing something to delight a bunch of schoolboys.

It's not a bad game, but like all Doom clones, it lacks the simple, exhilarating fun of Doom.

The one Build engine game I've found close to or better than Doom was Blood, it just has much more complex and fun gameplay with different outcomes depending on which weapons you use. But its one weakness would have to be the lack of the source code and a decent source port beyond DOSBox.

MajorRawne said:

"Doom Clone" seems to mean "Tries to go one better than Doom by having mouselook or better graphics or semi-naked women, but is nowhere near as much fun to play".

Many of the first wave of "bandwagon jumpers"/"Me too" Doom clones didn't even manage that much: take a look at titles like Corridor 7, Terminator: Rampage and even ROTT etc. which really didn't offer anything new (not even an engine of their own) and simply revamped the old Wolf3D engine, so that first wave was actually technically inferior to Doom.

Duke 3D is a better game if you judge it on its own merits alone to be fair. The level design is a lot more intuitive and better pulls off the real place feel than any Doom 2 map ever did, the weapons feel fantastic, particularly the D3D shotgun compared to the Doom shotgun and the game generally has more charm to it in that very niche way only 3D Realms could pull off.

Duke 3D has fantastic level-design... for the first two episodes. episode 3 is garbage, honestly. and the gameplay never interested me that much because for all the badass-ness that Duke proclaims he is, he sure seems to be made of swiss cheese and dies way faster than good 'ol Doomguy does. the music, level-design and graphics are generally better than Doom, but whenever i play Duke 3D again i'm reminded of how un-fun it is with the enemies' overall power and Duke's low durability. good game, but definitely feels more flawed than Doom.

FireFish said:

While Following the "clone" logic every mercedes could be a clone of a toyota which in terms could be a clone of an oldsmobile which then could be a clone based upon a ford-t.

[...]

1991 - Catacomb 3D
You look trough the eyes, and walk in the shoes of the fireball shooting wizard...

No one calls any FPS released after '99 a Doom clone, as established in my "Doom clone list" thread :) Calling the cars invented within 5 years of the model T "model T clones" would make a degree of sense anyway. No ones going to call a BMW a Model T clone the same way we won't call the latest Battlefield a Doom clone.

Also, the highly innovate Catacomb 3D was by ID. I've never seen them given more credit than due, in the modern era they're highly unappreciated if anything. All the kiddies think Bungie were "the big innovators" in online FPS play, for one thing..

SavageCorona said:

Duke 3D is a better game if you judge it on its own merits alone to be fair. The level design is a lot more intuitive and better pulls off the real place feel than any Doom 2 map ever did, the weapons feel fantastic, particularly the D3D shotgun compared to the Doom shotgun and the game generally has more charm to it in that very niche way only 3D Realms could pull off.

I guess if levels where rubbing up against a wall can cause you to goddamn clip through counts as "better" than yeah I agree :V

Also ugly Y shearing, /me vomits

The level design is definitely more realistic than Doom, but is realistic always better? The guns (and game overall) are amazing but I wouldn't even call it better than Doom, even in the design department.