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Ribbiks

Slaughterfest 3 [Beta_C released, 05/08/2017]

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Demonologist said:

What about also pimping it up a bit? I'd say it needs some light variation and a bit more interesting texture scheme. I might give it a try if no one minds, I guess it's safe to tell now that I know q1tex inside out haha.


I definitely don't mind. To be honest I'm just not motivated enough in the mapping department right now to work on it myself.

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Omnistar said:

Good to see this thread is back up again.

If the rest of you guys are cool with it (assuming there will be another beta), you can replace Payload with Iron Fortress instead. It's a larger but somewhat linear map but definitely nowhere near as bland as Payload was. Let me know what you think.


Ehhh a lot of the is just as flat and is only broken up because of corridors, and the key room having a lift that's easy to get out of and cheese doesn't help. The inital blue key room and the 2 cybers + spidermastermind etc. are ok. A lot of the teleporters aren't optimized and deliver 1 mob at a time, with 10-15 (to 20 for the keys?) total porting in. The revenant horde after the blue key is a little low on ammo, some of the secret ammo that triggers the archies should be on the table with the blue key. Most of the mobs in the red key corridors are easily avoidable, I opened each switch up to the rev closet and was fine, that needs to path better. I'm just going to say the 6 switches fight is bad, cybers from so far away create little pressure and actually help you because of how many rockets are coming down into the mobs. I barely had to fire at all to get out. The last fight ... not sure on, I don't really have time to bang my head against it a ton, but it feels like 1 or 2 too many archies, I can't get to them fast enough before everything fills up with lost souls and mancubi/arachnotrons. It could be related to the unoptimized teleporters and how random they can be, I'll have to look at it.

For now I'd rather have ribbiks make a map 15 and move castle of the damned back in ... even though it's not what I'd call slaughter. With a lot of rebalancing iron fortress might make it in instead of castle. Ribbiks should be the one to ultimately decide though, he was in charge ;)

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Thanks for the feedback. Guess we'll wait and see what happens. I could make some small adjustments if needed but I don't plan to make any big changes to the map. I thought the key/elevator thing might be something different but looks more like a miss to most folks here that tested it out. Oh well, live and learn. :)

If Ribbiks does want to keep Payload on the roster, I could go back and tone down the difficulty (looking back it does get absurdly hard at times) and a few parts here and there. Not sure about revamping the whole map since it'd be really tricky up to this point though.

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Reminder which idiot decided to change this from an annual mapping project as an excuse to piss around for 3 years deciding to do fuck all and then to top it all off it's probably going to be garbage anyway.

The whole point behind the original goal was to create a good slaughter wad in a year, it forces mappers to be both commited and dedicated when a time limit is imposed, preventing mappers from pissing around and challenging them to craft something worth while and hopefully memorable, but more importantly the imposition of a time limit is in itself an interesting factor in determining the outcome of a map's development, you've destroyed the original integrity and spirit of this ancient tradition and you should probably hang yourself as their could have been 3 more wads in this series ahhhhh.

Also in before it's still not released by the end of this year haha.

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Bloodite Krypto said:

Reminder which idiot decided to change this from an annual mapping project as an excuse to piss around for 3 years deciding to do fuck all and then to top it all off it's probably going to be garbage anyway.

The whole point behind the original goal was to create a good slaughter wad in a year, it forces mappers to be both commited and dedicated when a time limit is imposed, preventing mappers from pissing around and challenging them to craft something worth while and hopefully memorable, but more importantly the imposition of a time limit is in itself an interesting factor in determining the outcome of a map's development, you've destroyed the original integrity and spirit of this ancient tradition and you should probably hang yourself as their could have been 3 more wads in this series ahhhhh.

Also in before it's still not released by the end of this year haha.

Quoting post for preservation's sake.

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Bloodite Krypto said:

...


Nice rant. The only reasonable response I'd expect it would illicit would be... hmm... something along the lines of "fuck off". I'm an unreasonable person though.

The change happened well over year after nobody giving a shit about yearly limit, because the whole idea at that point was already tired and milked. Most of submitted maps by the end of 2013 were completely broken garbage heap that resembled a collection of my-first-maps that required an inhuman effort to actually make at least remotely playable. I'm not blaming anyone for refusing to release a useless wad just to satisfy a tradition that proved to be nothing more than burdensome.

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@bloodite: actually, this state of ennui and bemusement is 100% within the spirit of SF2011. And I could probably hook you up with a few symmetrical q1tex maps made in 3 hours or less if you want.

Sorry, I have a headache so I'm kinda grouchy. You're an SF alumnus, you're entitled to your say, and I value your opinion as a mapper. But the fact is, SF wads were always ~50% made up of maps contributed by people who didn't know or care what the official state of the project was, and the project ran out of steam largely because interest from that direction dried up considerably during SF2013. Slaughterfest doesn't attract many new mappers any more, so we do not have the material to draw upon to make yearly releases. And SF2014 was blatantly dead in the water long before the decision was made to merge them. There wouldn't have been two more slaughterfests since 2013 if we'd stuck to yearly releases, the project would just have flat-out died in 2014.

Besides, pissing about for years is the only real way to make a megawad. It's not a proper megawad if making it doesn't feel like having a chronic illness.

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Basically, what j4 and GoS said. As silly as it sounds - it was a weighted decision, not a spontaneous one, even though it may look like a desperate attempt to take a razor away from a suicidal downer. As it was said before - the whole thing started running out of steam after sf2012 that is - and will most likely remain - the crowning achievement in this whole concept, and sf14 was even sort of started but died out right away. So, what else should've been done? Releasing several compilations of subpar newbie maps with minimal involvement of major contributors just to preserve the annual tradition?..

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Demonologist said:

... Releasing several compilations of subpar newbie maps with minimal involvement of major contributors just to preserve the annual tradition?..

Funnily enough, I did nothing to 90% of the maps for the last beta. Just those last few maps that no one wanted to mess with. But yeah sf lost all of its steam, and I think it's fine that it had to lie fallow for a few years. The community hasn't been too interested in slaughter, with the exception of sunlust, and even that has some really nice looking maps that draw in the common doomer. Until we get a couple more people in the community that like it and are motivated, I think sf is done. Perhaps to bring in that community we should make a slaughterfest irc heheh.

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Xaser said:

Quoting post for preservation's sake.


Yes we must preserve this glorious act of war for futah generations :-D

j4rio said:

The change happened well over year after nobody giving a shit about yearly limit, because the whole idea at that point was already tired and milked.


How is it inconceivable to make 1 just 1 map given a year to do so.

Grain of Salt said:

And I could probably hook you up with a few symmetrical q1tex maps made in 3 hours or less if you want.


Those q1tex maps actually played well though :P

Grain of Salt said:

But the fact is, SF wads were always ~50% made up of maps contributed by people who didn't know or care what the official state of the project was, and the project ran out of steam largely because interest from that direction dried up considerably during SF2013.


Secrets and lies! If General Rainbow Bacon were still running this show none of this would have happened under penalty of castration.

Grain of Salt said:

Besides, pissing about for years is the only real way to make a megawad. It's not a proper megawad if making it doesn't feel like having a chronic illness.


The only real way to win the next Mordeth award (:

Demonologist said:

Releasing several compilations of subpar newbie maps with minimal involvement of major contributors just to preserve the annual tradition?..


I will eat your first born child for this act of heresy and treason!

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Bloodite Krypto said:

How is it inconceivable to make 1 just 1 map given a year to do so.


Build time of some of the actually memorable maps from sfs were sometimes in month(s). That is quite a lot of commitment considering nobody here gets paid a dime for the effort.

Also, a reminder that sf12 took year and a half until finalest multiplayer-bug-free version that would have probably never happened had you not complained the wad is not multiplayer friendly, which wasn't even the original goal anyway.

Bloodite Krypto said:

If General Rainbow Bacon were still running this show none of this would have happened under penalty of castration.


I really hope you're joking right now.

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Hypothetical "SF2011 rejects.wad", as an early christmas present to Bloodite :p

Spoiler

MAP01 - "Fortress of Abandon" (that map TheSpazztikOne made)
MAP02 - "Damage Case" (a later TheSpazztikOne map)
MAP03 - "Storage Facility" (odd-o-matic map #1)
MAP04 - "Death Below" (odd-o-matic map #2)
MAP05 - "Paths of Pain" (odd-o-matic map #3)
MAP06 - "Killtastrophe!" (odd-o-matic map #4)
MAP07 - "Slaughter City" (phobosdeimos1)
MAP08 - "Creature of despair" (that map hardcore_gamer made)
MAP09 - some thing by Walter Confalonieri
MAP10 - "Archimp" (Philnemba)
MAP11 - some kind of purpley thing by Icytux
MAP12 - "Hellbrary" (by Glaice. i don't think this was ever released)
MAP13 - "Devil's Attic"/"Devil's Warehouse" (by DeathFactoryX. I feel like this was never released anywhere)
MAP14 - some other thing by Olympus
MAP15 - "MAP01" (Zom-B)
MAP16 - "Cheesecake" (GoS SF2011 reject)
MAP17 - "Emergency Exit" (GoS SF2011 reject)
MAP18 - "Sticky Blood" (Memfis map, withdrawn and released separately)
MAP19 - "Live A Happier Life At Home" (SF2011 MAP01 original version)
MAP20 - "Intel Inside" (GoS SF2011 reject)
MAP21 - "Joe Jackson" (GoS SF2011 reject)
MAP22 - my unfinished renovation of DoomHero's MAP17
MAP23 - my unfinished renovation of DoomHero's MAP18
MAP24 - my unfinished renovation of DoomHero's MAP19
MAP25 - Crest of Simplicity Part 1 (the part of Zom-B's MAP31 which had to be cut out quite early on)
MAP26 - BHO map 1 (GoS SF2011 reject)
MAP27 - BHO map 2 (GoS SF2011 reject)
MAP28 - BHO map 3 (GoS SF2011 reject)
MAP29 - BHO map 4 (GoS SF2011 reject)
MAP30 - "War To End All Wars" (GRB's monster count map)
MAP31 - The cake-themed map I made to celebrate the end of SF2011

Lots of those aren't slaughter. Lots were never released in any form, but I do have about half of them on my computer somewhere. There are also a few more quick intended-for-SF2011 maps I made, but I don't remember what they are off the top of my head. I don't have my 2011 files around right now, this is mostly from memory.

Also, lest we forget, GRB originally specified that SF would last a month, and wanted to use an infinite ammo dehacked by default.

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j4rio said:

Also, a reminder that sf12 took year and a half until finalest multiplayer-bug-free version that would have probably never happened had you not complained the wad is not multiplayer friendly, which wasn't even the original goal anyway.


So I single handedly helped to ensure the most optimal version of the wad and made the TNS screw of ZDaemon happiest times, a medal of service I deserve! How can you not make a slaughter wad coop friendly hello it's like the best category for doing so.

Grain of Salt said:

Hypothetical "SF2011 rejects.wad", as an early christmas present to Bloodite :p


If you provide this to me I may consider dropping the charges :3

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Bloodite Krypto said:

So I single handedly helped to ensure the most optimal version of the wad and made the TNS screw of ZDaemon happiest times, a medal of service I deserve! How can you not make a slaughter wad coop friendly hello it's like the best category for doing so.


Buuuuuuuut it wasn't in the original spirit of completely coop unfriendly sf11. I thought you value the sanctity of traditions ?!?

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I personally am genuinely interested in seeing more GoS maps, be it sf rejects, or that mysterious megawad that appeared on these forums once in the form of some screenshots, only to vanish in abyssal depths again. Or both.

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j4rio said:

Buuuuuuuut it wasn't in the original spirit of completely coop unfriendly sf11. I thought you value the sanctity of traditions ?!?


I can't recall whether it explicitly stated in the original SF2011 list of goals that the maps were specifically meant to be for solo only and any coop alterations were not allowed.

If you can clarify whether the original goal was strictly meant to be solo only then very well, otherwise a change of mind to consider coop compatability for SF2012 doesn't break any tradition.

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It wasn't said anywhere, but no coop testing happened whatsoever. It doesn't even remotely matter. The point is, there were no strict traditions regarding anything, things kept getting changed on the fly all the time since 2011 to accomodate situations. The yearly limit of the first sf was reached just because a lot of normally time-consuming management decisions were handwaved, namely no coop testing, no elaborate map sorting and some maps being flat out miserable fillers in dire need of replacing. The approach since then has shifted towards making a wad that is in state of releasability, for sf12 it was year and a half, for sf13 two years and a half and counting. By the way, instead of moaning you could have made a map in the meantime as well.

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*long loud sigh*
I can put my "lost" sunder m11 ripoff here again if you feel like kicking something out of the current beta or anything like that, folks. It's easy and can serve as an early map (but not as m15, I don't think so). I don't know what to do with it, anyway, as it merely collects dust on my hard drive. Do you need it?..

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Now that is just insulting. What is it you are hoping for, kid? That one day you'll be able to brute force your way into this project? We all see how desperate are your attempts to pull your atrocities in each and every community project, and they may even be successful most of the time, as in vast majority of cases no one seems to give a rat's ass about the quality of the end product, yet, unfortunately for you (and luckily for us) - this one does not accept all kinds of shit just for the sake of it. Your reputation is quite well-established at this point, yet your asinine persistence in solidifying it even more is just beyond good and evil. Blergh.

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@demonologist

1. A Sunder map11 "ripoff" from you sounds like it would be a really cool map, and definitely a solid addition to the project (you say you could put it here "again", but I guess I wasn't paying attention the first time round, because I don't remember hearing about it before, sorry)
2. ~mysterious megawad~ will definitely see the light of day eventually! I'm still working on it (at my usual speed, unfortunately), I just don't really like releasing screenshots and stuff for things that aren't finished. I always feel like doing that makes the hypothetical finished product less impressive. There is some stuff in this project I really like though, which is rare for me.
3. My SF2011 rejects will never see the light of day: they are terrible. I mean, just look at my maps that made it into SF2011 and adjust your expectations downward from there.

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After the flack from demonologist, I expected to see some abyssmal ilya map. Tbh, it's probably having more potential than a lot of already present submissions. I'd consider reworking the ammo distribution much more thoroughly though. There's only like 100 cells in the whole map, which is not enough for certain sections and all the rockets are on a stack, which I'm not a huge fan of.

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j4rio said:

After the flack from demonologist, I expected to see some abyssmal ilya map. Tbh, it's probably having more potential than a lot of already present submissions. I'd consider reworking the ammo distribution much more thoroughly though. There's only like 100 cells in the whole map, which is not enough for certain sections and all the rockets are on a stack, which I'm not a huge fan of.

Dude, use the SF2013 texture pack, it contains the infinite BFG. Please do. I think demonlogist forgot it too.

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Hm, yeah I thought I'm missing something. Anyway, I think it would be strategically better map if a spam BFG wasn't included. Carefully placing cells throughout map makes up for a more interesting concept imo.

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@ GoS: Thank you for such encouraging words. This wasn't even a proper submission, I killed the project it was meant to be a part of and just threw it in here as a last resort during the period of thread's inactivity, only to withdraw it shortly after, for whatever reason. I don't think anyone actually paid attention, not that I really cared back then. Sf11 rejects... well, okay if you say so, but that megawad - pretty please!

@ j4rio: Backstab! "Abysmal ilya map" is exactly what I had witnessed. And pink cock of doom (no, I didn't miss it) was an additional deterrent factor that only proved author's laziness once again. There are creative ways of using it, sure, but not here, not now. What is it so good you saw in there (that is, if you're actually serious) - I will never, ever, understand.

=======================================================

Okay, "proper" submission then, so that j4rio could bash something. Once again - don't expect anything too fancy, this map is simple and very easy, maybe even map01 material. See for yourself.

Gevurah (grab sf2013-tex)

The only person who "officially" saw this map before is Archi, even though he probably remembers it under different name. No difficulty settings yet.

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I didn't mind the joe map, I thought it was kind of cutesy. a few of the fights screamed "shoot at the monsters in front of you", but perhaps with a bit of tweaking (the aforementioned cell balance, and maybe making some of the earlier encounters more "multi-vector" it could be a decent map.

demonologist map: here's an fda: https://www.mediafire.com/?1v2x5yvlo0d4d61

I think this could make a good early map. very easy to play through cautiously, I'm guessing it was designed with more of a "blaze through asap" mentality. A few comments:
- like the starting fight, straightforward pressure, replacing baron with multiple HKs (or another PE?) might make the initial fight for space more hectic
- those chaingunners before the big RK switch. why.
- I like the varied composition of the RK fight, but it devolves to strafing pretty quick. I think this could be improved by either adding more cacos that stream in from the top (so you can't circle around due to infinity tall), or more demons streaming in from the sides.
- YK fight seemed super tame by comparison, not saying you need to add anything, but if the player does RK first the BFG pretty much trivializes that AV/rev fight. hard-mode: if the player grabs BFG first, maybe make that fight harder with some boom trickery? Like, have monsters on pillars in the void, or something, so that the YSK platform isn't campable.
- final fight was fun, no complaints. wtf was the point of the green armor in the lava though? like hell that's ever worth grabbing :p
- overall I had a lot of excess cells. Maybe this is fine if it facilitates more aggressive play, but it's definitely something to keep in mind if you do any sort of fine-tuning

overall I liked it, polished, competent. can't go wrong with that aesthetic tbh.

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Thank you very much, my friend. Suggestions noted, some good points raised.

Ribbiks said:

"blaze through asap" mentality

Well, that, and the fact that it was meant to be an introductory "slaughter for noobs"-grade map initially, I didn't make any gameplay modifications prior to putting it here. Sometimes, some kindness has to be shown... sometimes.

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