Soundblock Posted October 2, 2015 I'm pretty sure it does. Anyone got the wherewithal to put this down in words? 0 Share this post Link to post
scifista42 Posted October 2, 2015 http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Monster_behavior#Initial_state_and_alertness 0 Share this post Link to post
joe-ilya Posted October 2, 2015 No. It just makes him not try to look for you when you shoot where you can't see him. 0 Share this post Link to post
Maes Posted October 2, 2015 Well, the poor monster is just made deaf, not blind ;-) Though it can also be made "blind" with REJECT table trickery. 0 Share this post Link to post
Quasar Posted October 2, 2015 joe-ilya said:No. It just makes him not try to look for you when you shoot where you can't see him. You might try reading the wiki link next time. 0 Share this post Link to post
Linguica Posted October 2, 2015 "Deaf" was always a misnomer and has caused no end of confusion. It's the GZDoom Builder of thing flags. 0 Share this post Link to post
40oz Posted October 2, 2015 In short, deaf monsters have a tendency to see both from the front and from the backs of their heads if they "hear" you first. Deaf monsters can still hear they just wait until the player is in visual range to do anything. Deaf monsters that HAVE NOT been alerted by gunfire still only see from the front. 0 Share this post Link to post
Soundblock Posted October 3, 2015 40oz said:In short, deaf monsters have a tendency to see both from the front and from the backs of their heads if they "hear" you first. Deaf monsters can still hear they just wait until the player is in visual range to do anything. Deaf monsters that HAVE NOT been alerted by gunfire still only see from the front. Nice one 40oz. Not sure I knew all that to the letter, but I know its true when I read it. 0 Share this post Link to post
joe-ilya Posted October 3, 2015 The deaf flag was once called "ambush" which makes them wanna wait to attack you instead of roaming around for you when you shoot. In other words : No it doesn't affect the vision, just the hearing. 0 Share this post Link to post
Bloodshedder Posted October 3, 2015 joe-ilya said:The deaf flag was once called "ambush" which makes them wanna wait to attack you instead of roaming around for you when you shoot. In other words : No it doesn't affect the vision, just the hearing. Again, you might want to try reading the wiki link. 0 Share this post Link to post
Jaxxoon R Posted October 3, 2015 Linguica said:"Deaf" was always a misnomer and has caused no end of confusion. It's the GZDoom Builder of thing flags. Ironically, GZDoom Builder has just recently changed "Deaf" to "Ambush Player." 0 Share this post Link to post
RestlessRodent Posted October 3, 2015 DEU 5.21 called it the "Deaf/Ambush" bit. 0 Share this post Link to post
Jon Posted October 3, 2015 For some reason wadc called it the mute flag, but I renamed it to deaf recently. 0 Share this post Link to post
Soundblock Posted October 4, 2015 Gets me thinking - would the engine fit the addition of another, "truly deaf", flag? (could be better named I'm sure, e.g. "catatonic") One where the sound of gunfire don't put the flagged monsters on alert state... Could be opening a can of worms (monsters eating rockets from behind not even noticing said rockets unless pained), but I can't help but wonder at some new possibilities too (sneaking up close to single chaingunners while picking off imps, bosses being all aloof until attacked, etc). I'd say the tasteful implementation of a true deaf/catatonic flag, if at all possible, would rely on the ability of monsters so flagged to be awakened from taking fire, even if immune or not pained by the incoming fire. 0 Share this post Link to post
Linguica Posted October 4, 2015 You could always use, ahem, sound block lines. 0 Share this post Link to post
Soundblock Posted October 4, 2015 Linguica said:You could always use, ahem, sound block lines. They're not as sturdy as they used to be. I keep having to double-dash (=) after engine limits were removed. Another good reason to map within the original engine limits I suppose. 0 Share this post Link to post
boris Posted October 4, 2015 You always had to use two sound blocking lines, even in classic. Use the sound propagation mode in GZDB to see what's going on. 0 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted October 4, 2015 Soundblock said:They're not as sturdy as they used to be. I keep having to double-dash (=) after engine limits were removed. Another good reason to map within the original engine limits I suppose. Uhm. What. That's always how soundblock lines worked. The sector scan only stops once it's reached a second soundblock line or a single 0 height sector. Yes that's how Vanilla works. It's not a limit removing addition in the slightest. 0 Share this post Link to post
ETTiNGRiNDER Posted October 4, 2015 I've found that sound sometimes "gets past" sound block lines even when they're doubled up (and other lines that should block sound, like closed doors) for some reason. It happened in my "Valley of Saints" map in a couple places. Best I can figure on is that it has something to do with large open areas. It doesn't seem to be a documented bug. 0 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted October 4, 2015 Probably because there isn't one, as it seems more likely you screwed up the structures. There really isn't a lot of room for the sector traversal to fail, however it's also pretty easy to forget just where it can traverse to, if you don't pay attention to which sectors are attached. "Impossible" traversals is entirely possible with a sector found in two different locations (typically used for waking up monster teleport boxes). 0 Share this post Link to post
Annunakitty Posted October 4, 2015 Let me introduce you to a map that you'l really like if you don't know how the deaf tag works 0 Share this post Link to post
Soundblock Posted October 5, 2015 boris said:You always had to use two sound blocking lines, even in classic. Use the sound propagation mode in GZDB to see what's going on. Well dang. If you guys say so. Some memories don't stand the light of day I suppose. My apologies for blaming new ports, and thanks for clearing that up. 0 Share this post Link to post
boris Posted October 6, 2015 To be fair, it's really easy to screw up sound blocking lines. Have a look at those Doom 2 levels: Sector 1 has a sound blocking line right in the middle. Since both sides of the line are the same sector, it does not block anything. I guess the reason for this mistake is the way DoomEd creates sectors. Probably the same as in map01. Again, merged sectors, causing the sound to bleed all over the map, rendering the sound blocking lines mostly useless. My favourite. You can actually stand in the light cone of the torches and the cacos in the serpentine room won't wake up. 0 Share this post Link to post
Soundblock Posted October 6, 2015 So, only lines bordering between two different sectors may actually block sound, you need two lines to actually stop the sound AND compounded sectors with identical floor/ceiling/lighting may not be such a good idea since you might be creating, uh, sound portals? I'm getting a headache. Maybe I should switch back to my old Cranium nick. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted October 6, 2015 Soundblock said:I'm getting a headache. Maybe I should switch back to my old Cranium nick. Dunno, I think that "Soundblock" is perfectly appropriate. :V 0 Share this post Link to post
Da Werecat Posted October 6, 2015 Sound portals? No. The problem with stock maps is that DoomEd merged identical sectors. As long as the sectors are different (i.e. not merged), the flag will work. In DoomEd the solution would be to assign dummy tags, like they did with raising stair steps. 0 Share this post Link to post
Soundblock Posted October 6, 2015 Da Werecat said:Sound portals? No. The problem with stock maps is that DoomEd merged identical sectors. As long as the sectors are different (i.e. not merged), the flag will work. In DoomEd the solution would be to assign dummy tags, like they did with raising stair steps. Authors often go around merging sectors with identical light/height/texture values though, to keep things tidy and easy to edit. Wouldn't this create sound "leaks" if the merged sectors touched on an area where monsters weren't designed to hear gunfire? 0 Share this post Link to post
boris Posted October 6, 2015 Soundblock said:Authors often go around merging sectors with identical light/height/texture values though, to keep things tidy and easy to edit. Wouldn't this create sound "leaks" if the merged sectors touched on an area where monsters weren't designed to hear gunfire? Yes it does, so you have to be aware of it. But you can also use it to your advanatage, alerting monsters in a remote area to the player, for example for teleport traps. This was/is often done with a tiny sector connecting the normal play area with secluded monster closets, while you can achieve the same effect by using one sector that is split into two enclosed areas. 0 Share this post Link to post
Quasar Posted October 6, 2015 boris said:Yes it does, so you have to be aware of it. But you can also use it to your advanatage, alerting monsters in a remote area to the player, for example for teleport traps. This was/is often done with a tiny sector connecting the normal play area with secluded monster closets, while you can achieve the same effect by using one sector that is split into two enclosed areas. Now that we understand the way that sector blockboxes affect movement operations, you need to be even more careful when doing this, so as not to merge sectors in ways that cause clipping operations to fail in an unexpected way (see the earlier thread where a sector wouldn't move because a Hell knight in a seemingly unrelated area was being detected as "stuck" and caused the sector move to be rejected just because he was inside the merged sectors' blockbox boundary). 0 Share this post Link to post