Gang Dang

The Public Dang has gotten 150 (!) new demos over the past few weeks, mostly '-fast' recordings for both Doom as Doom2. Download those goodies, call in sick for the next few days and enjoy!

Has anyone truly noticed that european players are better than american players in every FPS game. They kick our North American asses in Doom and Quake(q2 and q3 are debatable, but q1 isn't) maybe this is obvious to some of you. Not to point fingers or label anyone as US or THEM. Just an observation. We do have some damn fine mappers though -- not to mention that idsoftware is based "deep in the heart of Texas"...

What about Thresh?

He IS very good, but SK-Kane could kick his netquake ass any day of the week. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of PGL/CPL quality quake players in North America; just that Europe has the dominance(at least on the individual level -- team dm may pan out differently). Anyway, in DOOM, USA is waaaaay back there. I believe Andy Kempling(if he is American) or Joe Abene is the best american doom player. Again, no big deal; I just thought it was interesting.

Thresh is a joke nowadays. He just sits at his own little site acting like the id fanboy he is, but doesn't ever play or accept challenges any more. Andy "aurican" Kempling may be good, but he's also an ass, so...

Opulent...you should clarify your statement. "Andy Kempling(if he is American) or Joe Abene is the best american doom player"...? Single-player, maybe, but not deathmatch. I can guarantee that.

You're easily one of the top dm map designers.. which would suggest you are a VERY good dm player. And you are right: sp and dm are different. As far as I know, there are no PGL/OGL players at SDA. Optic vs Lord_Vader on DM3. SHIT! I'd pay to see that! However, in the sp players' defense, the sp runs are a MUCH more tangible skill evidence. If you say you can beat Aurican at dm, then I believe you, but there is no proof -- and certainly the evidence is on his side.

Thank you for the compliments, Opulent! While I do consider myself to be an excellent deathmatch player, I am not claiming that I could beat Andy Kempling at deathmatch. I have never seen him play, and therefore, cannot judge his ability. I was merely pointing out that single-player and deathmatch are two radically different variations of DOOM, and that talent in one realm is not necessary applicable in the other. Incredible talent at single-player gaming could amount to little in a deathmatch environment, and vice versa. Mind you, I am certain that it would vary from individual to individual. It is entirely subjective.

I agree with you Mattrim and Opulent. DM skills have nothing to do with SP skills. Well...someone who have played DM for a long time can easily convert to good SP playing, but not the other way around...DM relays more on basic playing skills then SP. Anyone can make a good SP demo if he wants to, it just takes patience IMO. SP playing is just following a pathern over and over again. Of course there are people who have alot of skill and does this extremely well (Adam Hegyi comes to mind as a good example :) DM and SP relays on vastely differnt skills though...hell, even all SP cats relays on different skills.

Anders, I think you're doing us speedrunners down a bit ;). While I agree a lot of Doom running - certainly all levels at UV speed these days - are merely following a pattern, there are a lot of runs which certainly aren't. Respawn, and long maxkills and pacifists, and finally movie runs, are the three areas where, in most cases, you can't predict absolutely what will happen. Playing any ep1 map pacifist, or running the whole episode, does require a lot of dm-type skill, and there will be a certain amount of adjustment and skill needed, it certainly isn't pattern running like ep3 speed. plus there's the very mundane things which players at a high level (both dm and sp) don't even notice - turning accuracy and so on - which are developed just as well by both. indeed, you have to be so accurate with angles in full-on speedrunning that i would say adam hegyi _must_ be right up there with the very best quake3 dm players in simple movement accuracy.

Well, Adam - I must agree that Pacifist requiers a whole other bunch of tricks then, lets say maxkill and plain uv speed. Still, in pacifist you follow some kinda patheren (aka - squeeze through here, wait for internal fights there). I'm not letting speedrunners down here, I'm just saying that DM and SP skills are very different :) Pluss, there is a big difference in aiming accuray and moving accuracy IMO :)DM releays more on the first one. Just my thoughts anyway :)

Adam, I couldn't agree with you more -- about the varying runs require spontaneous skills. However, you are wrong. Adam H. has MORE control than the top q3a players(and for all you skeptics--I have seen a lot of q3 demos including ALL of the xsi demos). Only SDA players (like Fleck, Kurkela, van Dijk, Pflug, Horvath,...) can touch Adam's control. If you read the DOOM ngs, I recently said that he is(IMO) the only player that could break any compet-n record if he wanted to. and that is what makes him the best. But to get back to the topic, I seriously believe that I would beat him in Quake2 or Quake3a deathmatch. The skills are just different.

I think a very good example for comparing DM skills and SP skills would be to watch a typical Dasa DM and compare it with Adam H's doom2 map10-027. Dasa would probably (some years back anyway) kick butt facing any compet-N player in DM. But he could _never_ make that map10-027. Simply cause he have too sloppy movementes. The moving skills Adam H, Yonatan Donner, Henning Skogsto and Adam W (to mention the most soft perfectionists) have developed, are amazing. I think YD got pretty close, maybe even as far as Adam H in that field. And yes, I think you are right Opulent - Adam H could beat any betable compet-N record if he wanted to. This may also be the case with Marijo Sedlic and Henning Skogsto though, just for the record :) Its impossible to say who's the "ultimate player" though, simply because of the different fields and preferd playstyles.

hey Anders... you forgot Panter among the most accurate players :-) he did so many unbeatable records ! About the SP/DM skills... i think they are quite differents but, IMO, switching from one to another is not that hard... ok i admit that SP to DM is harder than DM to SP :-) According to my own experience i can't say i'm a good DM'er cause i never played against good players :(