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DracoNoir

Double Slope on a 3d Ceiling

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Dont be mean. Roll your eyes now and get it out of your system! I have looked and what I have read I don't fully understand or can't fully apply to my situation and so would appreciate a little noobguiding!

I am relatively new to even ZDoom and GZDoom editing features, trying to make 'new' ideas in plain ol' vanilla Doom which most people think are just boring now! I used to create in DCK 2.2 on a Win 95 machine and only recently came back and found DB2 and GZDB.

So.

I'm wanting to really try something architecturally challenging (at least for me).

The section I'm currently stuck on is trying to create a slope in a 3d ceiling that slopes from left to right and also from front to back at the same time, so, the right is higher than left and front is higher than back.

I have a dummy sector set up to create the 3d floor, and also the left-right slope (working) but I cannot figure out how to get the front-back slope to work too.

I have tried putting 2 sloping linedefs in my dummy sector or having 2 dummy sectors for the same 3d sector to handle a slope each but of course that doesnt work.

I have also messed around with vertex and line slope things, but not sure I am using them correctly (do they go in the dummy sector as its a 3d floor, or in the proper sector? either way doesnt seem to work).

Is this something that can be done this way, or must be done in ACS or UMDF or something, neither of which I currently have any understanding of?

The level is designed for GZDoom and I an currently using GZDB.
Many thanks

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Gez said:

Boris has a plugin that makes it easier to adjust slope angles for 3D floors, you could try using that, even though there are currently some bugs with it so you should probably remove the plugin after setting up your floor.


Works fine for me.. Well, there is the occasional crash, but that's quite rare. I'm just surprised more people aren't using this plugin. Once you learn the basics, it's very easy to use and makes creating 3D stuff a lot easier.

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thanks guys, I'll check that one out =]

EDIT:
OK I've sort of got it working - I can create 3d floors ok with it, but I can't seem to enter 3d slopes mode or draw any slope vertices etc. I have defined controls for them bfore you ask, but nothing happens =[

I am in GZDB r2419 though and over on zdoom forums people say that it doesnt work properly with anything above 2410. Does anyone know if this is still the case and could this be the cause of the problem? I can't find any notes in GZDM revision history to say it is now fully supported.

The created level is in gzdoom Doom in Hexen format so I don't think that's the problem...


Thanks again!

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DracoNoir said:

thanks guys, I'll check that one out =]

Or you can try gzdoom builder.

It's like DB2 but with more features. it has sloping too.

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GZDoomBuilder has slopes visible in visual preview mode, while DB2 doesn't - but slopes as a game feature are equally available in all mapping editors in the appropriate "map format" (editor game configuration) that enables them. Game features (for example linedef/sector specials, thing types, etc.) are not related to the editor you're using. Editing features (for example drawing an ellipse-shaped sector, viewing maps in 3D preview mode, etc.) might be a different affair - but that's not a case of slopes, because slopes are game features, not editing features.

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DracoNoir said:

thanks guys, I'll check that one out =]

EDIT:
OK I've sort of got it working - I can create 3d floors ok with it, but I can't seem to enter 3d slopes mode or draw any slope vertices etc. I have defined controls for them bfore you ask, but nothing happens =[

I am in GZDB r2419 though and over on zdoom forums people say that it doesnt work properly with anything above 2410. Does anyone know if this is still the case and could this be the cause of the problem? I can't find any notes in GZDM revision history to say it is now fully supported.

The created level is in gzdoom Doom in Hexen format so I don't think that's the problem...


Thanks again!


EDIT...

mmk, so r2409 behaves the same and heres why:

also realised that sloped mode (in the configs window, modes tab) isn't supported by the plugin whilst in doom in Hexen format and only in UDMF. So, more questions I'm afraid:

1. Is it only in the plugin that slopes arent supported in DiH format - cos I've been able to use them fine (even on 3d floors) up to now.

2. Can I convert my current work to UDMF without any problems so I can get this working and if so, are there any things I should be aware of?

Thanks yet again =]

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riki2321 said:

Or you can try gzdoom builder.
It's like DB2 but with more features. it has sloping too.

uh

DracoNoir said:

I used to create in DCK 2.2 on a Win 95 machine and only recently came back and found DB2 and GZDB.

DracoNoir said:

The level is designed for GZDoom and I an currently using GZDB.

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DracoNoir said:

2. Can I convert my current work to UDMF without any problems so I can get this working and if so, are there any things I should be aware of?

If you simply go to Map Options and change game configuration from "Hexen format" to "UDMF", GZDoom Builder should convert it automatically and properly. Doom Builder 2 might not do it properly, but I'm not 100% sure about it, and it doesn't matter for you anyway, since you use GZDB.

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Where is the facepalm emote??

thankyou sir! I have been messing around trying (whilst learning!) to convert the wad using a command line converter for the TEXTMAP, then realising that that won't open in an editor cos it aint a compete wad, then trying to compile in slade3 with a header and ENDMAP without success so thankyou very very much!!

For those following and trying to do what I was trying to do, I got as far as exporting the TEXTMAP as a textfile, then putting it between an empty MAP01 marker and a ENDMAP marker so it looks like this in SLADE3:

MAP01
TEXTMAP
ENDMAP

But I kept getting errors from GZDB saying there was an invalid character in line 1 trying to parse the UDMF map info. Thats as far as I got.

Anywho, I personally don't need help with that aspect now and I'll be trying Boris's plugin to get my original problem sorted.


EDIT:

OK. Cannot get slopes working. in Boris's videos, when you edit a 3d secotr, theres options for performing the slope and drawing slopes (checkboxes with a slash (/) next to it for applying a slope) but these dont appear for me.

Something I'm doing wrong?

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Slope mode from the plugin only works with UDMF. As you noticed yourself it can be very tricky (or even nearly impossible) to get the slopes right in Hexen format when you want your slope to not be aligned to the x or y axis. The extensions (G)ZDoom supports (using plane equations to describe the slope) in UDMF make it a lot easier. While plane equations on their own are not really user friendly, the plugin provides a good interface to the whole thing.

Make sure you got version 0.2.0 of the plugin, which I uploaded today.

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oh hi Boris, thanks for stopping by my puny little thread and thanks for your awesome work! If only I could get my head around it!

I'm now in UDMF with 0.2.0 of your plugin and I can select the slopes option but can't do anything with it. If I right click in 3D slopes mode, I get a context menu which gives me the option to add/remove floor/ceiling slopes with both 'add' options greyed out.

I also can't see the slope options you seem to have in your vids as mentioned in my last post - is that what I'm missing or is this handled another way in this latest release?

Also, is what I'm originally trying to do (slopes in both x and y axes in the same sector) even possible? I saw in one of your posts on ZDoom forum that it wasn't in an earlier version but was just wondering.

I've put the slopes data sector in the CSA already.

Thanks!

EDIT:
Yeah OK im getting there slowly, answering my own dumb questions one by one!

So Draw the vertices in draw slope mode and edit the slope in slope mode. Next question will be along shortly =]

EDIT #2:

Yeah, I have been extremely dumb. For those following, Boris's vids at the link above (in the post about his plugin) are VERY explanatory, if you just take the time to watch properly.

Facepalm.


So plugin is working (and beautifully) and I have working slopes on a 3d floor. Now I'm just trying to work out how to do 2 uniform slopes in the same sector.

EDIT #3:

The answer is yes! For the benefit of anyone following this with the same level (lack) of knowledge that I had at the start of this thread, Boris's plugin is an absolute MUST HAVE, as is using UDMF format!

I will put pictures up if it is helpful, but basically is as follows:

For 3D sloping floors in two directions::


- Assuming you have created your 3D floor, enter Sectors mode and select your control sector so it is highlighted.

- Switch to Draw Slopes Mode.

- Simply draw your first 2 vertices to create your initial slope. Instead of ending your drawing there, draw a third vertex (the line will connect to your first vertex to form a sort of 'L' shape) to create your second slope, say, perpendicular to your first slope.

- After setting the heights of your vertices, your slope will be uniform in both directions.


Thanks for those who gave help and I hope this helps others!

-

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Ok, figured it out (actually not that difficult), but hopefully this will save someone some time.

Creating 2 slopes in the same sector of a 3D floor::

Requirements::

Spoiler

- GZDoom Builder (latest version seems to work fine, but others report problems with the plugin with GDZB versions after 2409)

- Boris's most excellent 3D Floors Plugin v0.2.0 (can be found via link earlier in this thread)

- Your WAD to be in UDMF format

- Make sure you set up the plugin in Preferences > Controls so you can draw slope vertices.

- The latest version of GZDoom from the repository, or, if your hardware won't support OpenGL 3 and later (you'll get an error if you try to run GZDoom), use 1.8.10

The problem (at least for me):
Spoiler




Here is an archway in a wall created with 3D floors. As you can see, either side of the archway has been sloped (along the x-axis) and the highlighted sector has been sloped along its y-axis. What I wanted to achieve was to slope the sectors either side of the highlighted sector to match, but maintaining the slopes they already have.

The solution:
Spoiler


I selected the control sector for this 3d floor above, switched to Draw Slope Mode and drew these two vertices, left to right. As I want the slope to occur across the whole surface of this sector, I have drawn this line along the sector's line. Not sure if this is required but it works.


After drawing the first two vertices, I added a third as shown above, which connects itself to the first. This is why I drew the first line on the sector line as opposed to in the middle of the sector, as I wanted the second slope to span the entire sector as well.


The slope vertices added and adjusted to the correct heights. Notice that I have set the third vertex to 148, not 228 to match the adjacent sector. This is because THIS slope starts at 128, and not at the other end at 208. I have simply added the difference between heights of the adjacent sector slope vertices to the first slope vertex. Otherwise the slope would have been from 128 to 228 - very steep!


Here is the completed slope. See how the archway shape has been maintained, but the sector also slopes INTO the wall, and uniformly along the sector to create that 'bevelled' effect. Of course the slopes needn't align with the x and y axes of the grid, mine just happened to =]

Hope that ends up helpful to someone and wasn't too obvious to everyone =]

Mods please mark thread as answered and thanks again to everyone who helped!

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See my post here, where I try to explain the principle how "Plain Aling (Slope)" action works and how it determines the slope's exact shape. If you want a slope that's sloped differently than along X or Y axis, place the action linedef under a respective angle. If the action linedef doesn't fit into the place where you want it to be, you can use a dummy sector outside the map joined with the sector that you want to be sloped, place the action linedef there, and properly position the dummy sector so that the line was "parallel" with the intended sloped sector's peak.

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Thanks scifista,

That explains a lot more about the mechanics of sloping via action lines and is definitely worth knowing, although standard slopes (ie not on 3D floating floors) in GZDoom (Builder) and in UDMF format appear to be much easier to control in the Edit Sector Dialog as the slope direction can be selected via a 360 degree control.

I think Boris's plugin makes viewing and editing slopes en batch a lot lesstime consuming and click-intensive, especially if you have a lot of them (which the level I'm trying to create hopefully will have!)

The other benefit here is with 3D slopes, previously the control (dummy) sector for the 3D sector which was to have a slope applied had to match dimensions along the axis of the intended slope (ie be as long as the sloped sector's slope) and also align with it on the map. I'm not sure is this a feature of the plugin, of UDMF or of GZDB as I am new to all 3 (as of last night =])

This way, all dummy sectors can be thrown together in a distant corner of your map, only to ever be seen by tenacious no-clippers =]

EDIT:

Having said that, none of my 3d slopes will actually render properly when I test the game. In fact they don't appear at all... Any ideas anyone? I have other slopes on standard floors which are ok - Is this possibly down to the issue above over which I was bragging - alignment of the dummy sector when using 3d slopes?

My nodebuilder is ZDBSP if thats helpful?

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In fact, Boris....

...is this normal?



These are my control sectors. The ones tailing off to about -11000 are my 3d slopes whereas standard 3d floors' control sectors appear 'normal'

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DracoNoir said:

Having said that, none of my 3d slopes will actually render properly when I test the game. In fact they don't appear at all... Any ideas anyone?

The only two things that come to mind are:
- ZDoom will not render sloped 3D floors. Only GZDoom will work.
- Plane equations were added relatively recently (I forgot when exactly though) so an old version of GZDoom may not render them. Be sure to get a development build.

I don't know if that'll be helpful since apparently you're already using GZDoom and the slopes on normal floors and ceilings work, so these two hypotheses are disqualified, but I see nothing else.


As for the sloped 3D floor's control sectors being all weird: that's normal. Keep in mind that they're aligned with the slope, so the greater the distance between the 3D floor and its control sector, the larger the effect of the slope on the control sector.

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Thanks Gez,

Yes I'm already using gzdoom and have had 3D slopes working via the old method of making sure the dummy sector is similar in geometry and aligned along a map axis with the affected sector and that worked ok - I've had the archway in the wall working fine in the game. It's only with the plug in and putting this second slope in that I'm now having problems, but none of the 3D slopes show at all. I'm just getting flat sectors.

Could it be the way I'm making them? I'm setting up the 3D floor so that the floor is set to its lowest point then I'm sloping the floor UP from there. Should I try setting it to the top of the slope and sloping it DOWN? logically to me this shouldn't make a difference but it's still odd how some of my steeper slopes put the floor height higher than the ceiling.

Although as I type that what you say below makes sense about that. This map is huge and the controls are indeed a long way away from the 3D floors...

Gez said:

As for the sloped 3D floor's control sectors being all weird: that's normal. Keep in mind that they're aligned with the slope, so the greater the distance between the 3D floor and its control sector, the larger the effect of the slope on the control sector.


EDIT::

Wasn't using the latest GZDoom after all - earlier versions still need the alignment thing to work with 3d floors. Beware if your graphics hardware only supports OpenGL 2. Then use GZDoom 1.8.7 and the plugin will still work!

Finally Solved! Thanks all

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