build Doom3....using new Serious engine

Id is building Doom3 with new engine that's not compatible with Doom1,2 or new ports(Boom,ZDoom, etc).
We won't be able to port our maps, wads, over to Doom3.

This is prolly a wacky idea, but I'll throw it out here, see what people think.....
You serious mappers, wad-builders, have expressed strong opinions on what you'd like to see in Doom3.
Why not build a prototype Doom3, that shows Id what you'd like to see in their game?

A full prototype D3 would require a team project. A real hassle.
But more fun, and more likely to get done quick, would be individual guys building their own D3 maps or wads.
True, single maps n'wads are NOT a "complete D3 prototype" - but still, they'd give Id a good idea, of what us Doomers "hope Doom3 will be like".

It'd be fun to use a brand new, Commercial 3D-engine to do this "Doom3"-thingy.
All the work's been done on the engine it won't need time-wasting "debugging", "patches", "updates".
So guys can just concentrate totally on "building" their D3 maps.

Where you gonna get a powerful new commercial engine for "$20"?
(Heck, we pay more than that, for a Doom Editor!).
This brings me to.....

Croteeam (www.croteam.com) has just released today, the SDK for the Serious Sam engine.
They announced its for coders and serious mod-builders only.
It lets you rip the Serious Sam engine apart, get down and dirty with it ....and build your own game from ground up.
(I guess they let you do what you want with engine, as long as you don't try to sell what you make, or claim its your property).

Sam is selling like hotcakes for $20 (game w/Serious engine, 3D-Editor, SDK).
Serious Engine is a full-3D engine, tested by thousands of beta-testers worldwide.
Reviewers say engine-graphics are "right up there" with Q3-A, UT.


Also, the 3D-Editor does all node-building in "real time". You don't have to wait.
And it shows what you're adding to your map, right in the Editor.
You don't have to load the game and go see what the changes you just made to the map, look like in the game.

So....you guys here at Doomworld who are into serious map-building, wad-building -- does this idea have any merit at all?
Even, a teeny weeny bit?
fragg

I like the idea...

Why, that's a brilliant idea :) Really! Dunno what, if any, real effect it would have on id's plans for Doom3 development though. It sure would be an interesting project.

Steve, there'd be no problem getting the stuff to John Carmack for him to see... he's a reader of his mail (while sitting at his desk working all thru the nite, while everyone's gone home. It's his normal work-schedule). I know for real, that he reads stuff sent to him, if its not crank.

But even if as you say, it might not have "great impact" on his plans -- still, it might have some.
And this "D3-thingy" all by itself, would be great fun, don't you think?
This Doomworld site is kinda "winding down" (so it seems to me). This would be a real shot-in-the-arm for "enthusiasm" here at Doomworld. Slow down, the exodus.

For only $20 -- we get the game everyone's giving "rave Reviews" to -- a new 3D commercial engine that's been tested fully -- and a kick-butt 3D-Editor -- and (for smart wad-building guys like you) an SDK to boot.
Talk about "Cheap Bargain-Bin bonanzas!" <g>).
Anyway, I hope this catches on. Thanx for the post.
fragg

Linguica said:

I like the idea...

I've already signed up at a Sam site.
If this "D3 mapping" idea caught on here, Doomworld would become pretty famous pretty quick.

The joint could be jumping with new Members.
From what I saw (at the Sam site) they're all pretty courteous dudes, and enthusiastic wad-builders. They'd make good "new blood" for Doomworld.

Also, if "D3-mapping" catches on here -- the "newDoom3" site (that's just been put up somewhere, and we all been hearing about) might be put "in the shade" real quick by Doomworld.
(Hmm, that thot kinda appeals to me <g>).

fragg said:

Steve, there'd be no problem getting the stuff to John Carmack for him to see... he's a reader of his mail (while sitting at his desk working all thru the nite, while everyone's gone home. It's his normal work-schedule). I know for real, that he reads stuff sent to him, if its not crank.

But even if as you say, it might not have "great impact" on his plans -- still, it might have some.
And this "D3-thingy" all by itself, would be great fun, don't you think?
This Doomworld site is kinda "winding down" (so it seems to me). This would be a real shot-in-the-arm for "enthusiasm" here at Doomworld. Slow down, the exodus.

For only $20 -- we get the game everyone's giving "rave Reviews" to -- a new 3D commercial engine that's been tested fully -- and a kick-butt 3D-Editor -- and (for smart wad-building guys like you) an SDK to boot.
Talk about "Cheap Bargain-Bin bonanzas!" <g>).
Anyway, I hope this catches on. Thanx for the post.
fragg

I hope it catches on too. I've been meaning to give 3d game editing a shot :)

i just thought i'd let yall know that there's the level editor on the serious sam cd. with a cool feature: you can play the level and test it in a window in the editor! frikken cool if you ask me, don't know how to make levels yet. haven't had the time.

That's a good idea... but who's actually going to do it? It's not realistic. Who's willing to spend x number of months making a project that iD might not even bother to consider thinking about? By the time this project would be completed, Doom3test would be out, or the real game would be out. It's unrealistic, and it is impractical.

Sorry for shooting down your idea man, believe me, I think it's a good idea. But it just won't work.

Aradiel, you said....."Who's willing to spend x number of months making a project that iD might not even bother to consider thinking about? By the time this project would be completed, Doom3test would be out,"....

I reply ...excellent point!
That's why my post suggested it would be more fun and more likely to get done quick -- if individual,guys simply make their own D3 maps (using Serious Sam tools).
If we wait to assemble a team here, nothing will happen.
Besides, as one guy said below, it would be kinda nice to mess around with a new 3D-Editor and build D3 maps.
That's the "garage mechanic" approach.
I mean by that, more gets done in Doom mapping by individual mechanics building their own wads -- than by "teams building very few, but powerful projects".
Just look at the thousands of Doom wads. Sure, there's plenty junk among them, but many are real cool.
I look on the "lone individual building his own single map", as the real "backbone" of Doom editing. And it always has been so. Just look at the tons of maps.
Few, VERY few, were "team" projects.

Bottom line:
For those who'd like to try this "D3-map building" thingy -- it might be real fun.
And in no way would hurt Doom community.
In fact it might give this place the equivalent of "Jolt Cola" <g> ).
fragg

fragg said:

We won't be able to port our maps, wads, over to Doom3.

We cannot be certain about that. If the new engine can do more than Doom and Doom2, it can probably do 'as much'. With the help of a (probably complicated) converted, we should be able to convert almost anything.

Otherwise your idea is interesting.

Well, we have a lot of resources sitting around in the dooming community, so it wouldn't be that much work. Edmundo Burdeau already made all the doom characters in .md2 format (does serious sam use this type?) and all someone would have to do is alther some of the skins to the serious sam palette.

Remember when that group of guys waiting for doom to come out made their own program? (the letters of the name where the origional doom clipping code). We could do the same. It would show that the doom communtiy has more dedication that that of quake or half-life (queers).

I like the idea. Go with it

To all you guys (for your consideration) -- here's copy of a post in Editing forum.
Maybe it has some merit, maybe it don't.
(Let each guy here decide for himself).

The Post is saying, its not good idea to wait for a "team" to build D3-maps -- because you might be waiting forever....
.................................................................

"I don't think anything will come of it" (IF everyone waits for a "team" to do it).
"....Have you noticed the sorta "malaise", that seems to be hanging over this place? Like everyone was waiting...."

"IMO, if "D3-mapping" in Doomworld is ever going to come about, it WON'T be because a "team" did it.
It will be launched by one editing-savvy guy with spirit (like yourself) who'll make for his own accomplishment, satisfaction -- a SINGLE "killer-map" (using a top engine; most likely, the Serious engine).
Then he somehow imported Doom enemies into it (maybe along with the Sam enemies) -- and the graphics were so wild and georgous, and map was such a blast to play -- that he downloaded it here at Doomworld.
And bingo-- all hell broke loose ("Hey that's cool, Man!!"... "Wow!!"... "I think I'll try making one!!").
From that point on it'll be a snowball rolling downhill -- bigger by the minute."

"In other words it'll be one lone guy at Doomworld, who'll start the 'D3-map' ball rolling.
It'll be one sharp, persistant, determined, Mapper who'll do it. One guy, who said ...."shit - there may be a slight "Sam-learning" curve here, the road may have pothole or two -- but still, its only $20 project -- By Dang, I'll give it a shot!!"

Some of his ideas might make it into D3, maybe they won't.
But one thing does seem clear....
After Id releases D3, he'll prolly be acknowledged as "original pioneer" of Doom3 mapping, the mapper who blazed the trail, the lone guy who led the way.
It's always been so in life, always will be, in Big things or Small -- it's always been 'one guy' who leads the way."