The old Doom engine!

I am really impressed by the people who push the original Doom engine to it's limits! Randy the maker of Zdoom is doing an increduble job and he is making now Doom script that will allow us to program our own monster behavior!
I don't see anyone even trying to push the Quake 3 engine that way! I know that it's MUCH more complicated but still...
Maybe when Doom 3 Engine arrives Quake 3 engine will be pushed to it's limits like the Original Doom engine is pushed now!

People push the Doom engine because Doom will never die, it was revolutionary and an instant classic. Quake 3 is a gimic. There will be more online FPS's and Q3 will be forgotten. You can't try to make a great game. All you can do is put your heart and soul into it, and if that comes out as the right combination of graphics, gameplay, and revolution, then the game will become memorable like Doom, and people will still keep it alive 5 and 10 years down the line. I doubt even Half-Life, as much as I love it, will be able to last like Doom has.

Actually I didn't touch the subject of Quake 3 itself I only mentioned the engine not the game!
But I do agree with u!
Halflife editing tools while easy to use aren't up to the ease of Doom editing tools!
Creating a map for Doom takes sometimes a couple of hours unlike Halflife where it can take weeks!
I hope that Doom 3 will do what Doom did when it was released!

EllipsusD said:

People push the Doom engine because Doom will never die, it was revolutionary and an instant classic. Quake 3 is a gimic. There will be more online FPS's and Q3 will be forgotten. You can't try to make a great game. All you can do is put your heart and soul into it, and if that comes out as the right combination of graphics, gameplay, and revolution, then the game will become memorable like Doom, and people will still keep it alive 5 and 10 years down the line. I doubt even Half-Life, as much as I love it, will be able to last like Doom has.

Don´t be so sure. The Quake series would be remembered as the most important jumps in 3D technollogy. Altough DooM shown us for the first time a believable world landscape, every FPS that came after Q and many, many more yet to come have more in common with the Quakes than with DooM. I think DooM was way more revolutionary in gameplay than in graphics. Yeah, sure, looks like i´m mad, gameplay???? DooM???. But hey, Q created the true 3D panorama of actual games, but DooM almost invented the FPS genre by it´s own. Take a look at gaming news, see what games are about to come, like 40%-50% are FPSs.

Oh, by the way, DooM engine is being pushed that far because the ENTIRE source code is available. Q ones aren´t yet fully released. A programmer that knows QuakeC or even VC++ can do nothing to upgrade the core system.

Dima said:

Actually I didn't touch the subject of Quake 3 itself I only mentioned the engine not the game!
But I do agree with u!
Halflife editing tools while easy to use aren't up to the ease of Doom editing tools!
Creating a map for Doom takes sometimes a couple of hours unlike Halflife where it can take weeks!
I hope that Doom 3 will do what Doom did when it was released!

Well, that´s an useless comparation. Look at the differences between the level of detail in a DooM engine and a Quake one.
How can you expect to make more information in less or equal time?

JEEZUZ, you can't do shit to the quake3 engine because there's no source code for the engine, only the game! The source code for the quake1 engine was released a year or two or something back, and people have done some pretty cool stuff with it, like colored lighting, better animations, fog........ It all gets more complicated so there's not so many big steps as in doom tho, anywayz, Q3 and Q2's engines can't be messed with, that's why nobody does it =)

Zaldron said:

Don´t be so sure. The Quake series would be remembered as the most important jumps in 3D technollogy. Altough DooM shown us for the first time a believable world landscape, every FPS that came after Q and many, many more yet to come have more in common with the Quakes than with DooM. I think DooM was way more revolutionary in gameplay than in graphics. Yeah, sure, looks like i´m mad, gameplay???? DooM???. But hey, Q created the true 3D panorama of actual games, but DooM almost invented the FPS genre by it´s own. Take a look at gaming news, see what games are about to come, like 40%-50% are FPSs.

Oh, by the way, DooM engine is being pushed that far because the ENTIRE source code is available. Q ones aren´t yet fully released. A programmer that knows QuakeC or even VC++ can do nothing to upgrade the core system.

I'm not arguing about Quake's impact. I'm just saying that people really don't edit for it anymore (at least not compared to Doom).

Zaldron said:

Well, that´s an useless comparation. Look at the differences between the level of detail in a DooM engine and a Quake one.
How can you expect to make more information in less or equal time?

It is not a useless comparason, Quake is more recent than Doom, and Doom is still more alive. And the size of the engine and the amount have information have nothing to do with the NUMBER OF PEOPLE who still back these games.

Zaldron said:

Well, that´s an useless comparation. Look at the differences between the level of detail in a DooM engine and a Quake one.
How can you expect to make more information in less or equal time?

Why it is a useless comparation??
I understand that the Quake engine is much more compicated than the Doom engine BUT GOSH u can make a doom map in 5 minutes and in Quake 3 it can take even a month or more!!
I wish we could go back to the editing days of doom with Doom 3!

DiSTuRBeD said:

JEEZUZ, you can't do shit to the quake3 engine because there's no source code for the engine, only the game! The source code for the quake1 engine was released a year or two or something back, and people have done some pretty cool stuff with it, like colored lighting, better animations, fog........ It all gets more complicated so there's not so many big steps as in doom tho, anywayz, Q3 and Q2's engines can't be messed with, that's why nobody does it =)

Right, look at the Seal of Nehahra machinima. That´s one hell of a work

EllipsusD said:

I'm not arguing about Quake's impact. I'm just saying that people really don't edit for it anymore (at least not compared to Doom).

That has a reasonable explanation : why edit for Quake 1 or 2 having Quake 3? It´s like if doomers edited for DooM1 and not for DooM2. That makes no sense, D2 has more weapons, more enemies, more tags, more textures & flats, etc.

Dima said:

Why it is a useless comparation??
I understand that the Quake engine is much more compicated than the Doom engine BUT GOSH u can make a doom map in 5 minutes and in Quake 3 it can take even a month or more!!
I wish we could go back to the editing days of doom with Doom 3!

A man with more practice don´t need a month. At the end, look at both levels, wich one is more entertaining to see, wich one represents more effort and logic?? Q3A one.

Start from the basic beggining that in DooM you need just one sector, but Q´s need various brushes, surface properties, compiling BSP, VIS, lightning, etc.