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Guest Doomfreak671

Weapons

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Guest Doomfreak671

We want realistic weapons!

* A Machinegun.
* A plasma rifle - available, somewhere!
* A rocket launcher.
* A few different handguns.

I have listed realistic weapons, but there are others there can be on Doom 3 e.g, sawn of double-barrelled shotgun, knife etc.

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Well if this isn't as familiar as your icon.

We've had page long posts about this before, and a lot of them were more original.

Machingun <- Quake 2
Plasma Rifle <- Doom, Quake 3
Rocket Launcher <- All, but Carmack said it won't be in Doom 3
Sawed Off Double Barrelled Shotgun <- Blood
Knife <- Wolf3D

Also, considering Doom 3 is as far into development as it is I'm fairly certian that they have their arsenal well and decided.

Personally, I would hope that half of the weapons are based off of real life designs and the other half are just pure futuristic.


Melee level
10mm Pistols
12g Magnum Shotguns
7.62 Machine Guns
40mm Grenade Launchers
.44 Magnum Pistols
Cell Powered Weapons


Add 2 or 3 of each of those and I think the arsenal would be quite well rounded. It's difficult to imagine a futuristic weapon that already hasn't been done before. The big thing I want is BALANCED weaponry, like Quake 3.

In multiplay, all the weapons were perfectly balanced between power, ammo, and range. The only weak weapon was the machine gun and the only strong weapon was the BFG.

We can lose the BFG, too. It's just a lamer weapon.

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deadnail said:

We can lose the BFG, too. It's just a lamer weapon.

Wait, don't lose the BFG! I agree it isn't that great for multiplayer, but remember in single player how it takes 7 or 8 shots (at least) to kill the cyberdemon. Don't take the weapon, just compensate for it's use.

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How about making it just as dangerous to the user, and making the secondary attack a big green explosion that's ALWAYS suicide?

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I like that idea, even though today for the first time ever I accully used the bfg on a quake 2 server and racked up frags, I still got my ass kicked. My opinion is everybody in everygame is good with there own weapon, some like the shotgun, others like the rocket launchers, and some occsionaly like to join a server and get a nice bfg frag. But the idea of the dangerous primary fire, and the kamakze scondairy fire is a very good idea to strike out on bastards like me :D. Imagin playing ctf, having to retreave your flag and cant kill the fucker infront of you who has it, just kamkaze his way back to the respawn point. That needs to be added to that list off good ideas for doom3 deadnail.

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Guest JudgeDooM
deadnail said:

Well, the arsenal in Doom and Doom II was perfectly balanced, no?

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deadnail said:

Melee:
no swords whatsoever unless they are really high tech (like an electro-shock sword or vibro blade), and by no means should they be allowed to take center stage like they did in FAKK 2 (euwww).
Chainsaw is irrational - shouldnt be here, but you could come up with something like it that would.

Pistols:
In addition to the standard pistol (and maybe an enhanced version),
I would like to see a pistol that could fire any type of ammo (excluding shotgun shells - too large).

Shotguns:
Something new please, like the "Jackhammer" or something. I dont want to see any farmer's guns (like blood had) or any pump action or any of this square crap that quake 2 had.

Machineguns:
as many as you want, they just cant upset the balance of gameplay. Bulletproof enemies like the cyberdemon should not be killed no matter how many 7.62mm you pump into them. And for larger creatures that aren't bulletproof, damage should be reduced SharplY.

Grenade launchers:
as long as they aren't fully automatic.

Cellers (hehe):
LOTS of them, preferably more than 3. My reasoning is that doom3 will take place further into the future than doom 1 or 2 did, and that the UAC will ahve more higher tech toys to play with than before since the whole of humanity is now in space (they escaped to outer space in doom2), and more technologic development is going on. Maybe have some compact cell weapons like the shock rifle from UT or the blaster pistol from Q2.

The UAC should stop the budget-cutting that plagued our marine with lousy shotguns and crude chainguns.

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JudgeDooM said:

Well, the arsenal in Doom and Doom II was perfectly balanced, no?

No, the armory of Doom1/2 wasn´t perfectly balanced, Quake3´s arsenal is much more balanced (exept BFG), I totally agree to Deadnail in this point. Examples: The pistol in Doom was very weak compared to the other weapons, the Plasma Rifle was much more effective than the Chaingun. And because of its limited physics (no jumping, no free look etc.) the old Dooms didn´t had weapons like a grenade launcher or highly accurate weapon like a railgun. I tested a Doom-Mod for Quake3Arena which featured exactly the same weapons like in Doom2, and it was pretty boring without these gameplay enhancing weapons.

@Deadnail: I thought the no-rocketlauncher thing was just for the "Quest" project? Could you imagine a weapon which can take the place of the typical Doom-Quake rocketlauncher? Maybe a photon torpedo launcher but that would be silly I think...

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Who says it has to be balanced?
balance has nothing to do with gameplay...

in fact it is good to have big weapons that do an insane amount of damage, just dont make them the focus of the game.

As far as multiplayer goes a 1 shot/ 1 kill weapon is bound to upset gameplay, but they said that doom3 wont really focus on multiplayer in the fisrt place anyway.

There has to be a one shot/ one kill weapon somewhere in the works or the UAC is incredibly stupid.


Here is what I think of balance:

* Starting weapon has to do either the least damage or some other bad effect, Unreal and UT totally contradict this with their pistol that can kill in a few shots.
* The explosive weapons must do lots of damage but are in no way the limit of damage infliction.
* The most powerful weapons MUST be either high-tech, or low tech and too large to use effectivly. Explosives cannot do the most damage pound for pound.
* Damage caused by Bullet weapons and Shotguns cannot exceed the amount done by a grenade or rocket.
* "Energy" weapons must either do a little more damage per shot than the highest powered bullet weapon or do as much damage as a grenade or rocket (at a reduced fire rate of course). Higher powered "Energy" weapons must do more than twice as much damage as a rocket or grenade.
* MOST explosive weapons must be able to kill the player with one shot (or 2 shots depending on where he was hit, indirect shots do not count, and low-powered explosives can take as many as 3 hits).
* "Energy" weapons must have more of an effect against armor than explosives or bullets (rock, paper, scissors effect).
* Melee weapons typicially do less damage than the highest powered bullet weapon, they do twice as much as this if they are "energy" based (lightning swords, etc).
* The highest powered bullet weapon must take at least 2 shots to kill the player and the maximum amount of shots the lowest powered bullet weapon must have to kill the player is 20. Bullet weapons meaning standard gunpowder and projectile, modified bullets have a small increased effect. Railguns cannot be fired in an automatic fasion (unless their damage is reduced).

Note that UT and unreal totally do NOT follow these guidelines (neither does FAKK 2 and a whole host of other games [including to a minor extent the quake series])

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@Galahad: You have some good points, but I say a balanced armory has it´s effect on gameplay also in single player mode (although in multiplayer it´s much more important). If you have some good powerful weapons and some weak crappy weapons, you will always use the better weapons, so it doesn´t makes gameplay interesting.
But if you have a collection of different weapons with their special pros and contras, you will start learning to make a perfect use of your weapons during the game, depending on different situations.
An example for an unbalanced arsenal is Halflife (because it´s hard to make realistic weapons balanced). I used the very usefull machinegun (with attached grenade launcher) 70% of the time, in some situations hand grenades and pipebombs, 20% of the time the Magnum revolver, and, for example, the missile launcher with it´s fucking realistic slow relaod time exactly in one single situation (when I took the helicopter down). I dont liked that.

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