Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
deadnail

Controlling an FPS with a gamepad...

Recommended Posts

Yes this post does pertain to Doom 3, in the sense that it will certainly have a console port down the line and I want to make controlling it possible (unlike Q3A for DC).

How do we control an FPS game? We use the keyboard for lateral strafing and the mouse for freelook. Doing this with a gamepad is nearly impossible.

Problem 1: No gamepad can feature a mouse, at best they could do a trackball but most use analog sticks which are damn near useless for this purpose (big 2 reasons: you can't suddenly stop and you can't turn fast enough then slow).

Problem 2: Most gamepads with analog sticks have them on the left side of the pad. Being right handed I mouse with my right hand and keep my left hand on the keyboard. By using this gamepad my button hand is forced to aim and my aiming hand is forced to tap buttons.

Take a look at this brand new gamepad from Guillimot:
http://www.gamecenter.com/Hardware/Controllers/Thmfs/shot1.html
It'll only take a second just to look at the damn thing!

Now then, let me elaborate. I don't actually mouse, per se. I use a Logitech TrackMan Marble Wheel as my pointing device (I'll never go back to a rat!). I set up the arrow keys for moving and strafing, and use keypad 0 for jump and right ctrl for ducking. It's a good setup that has yet to be emulated properly on a gamepad but I have faith that it can be!

Why the HELL do gamepads need two analog sticks? It's mind boggling, you can't properly use more than one of them anyway! So, here's my idea.

Look at that gamepad again.
Mentally replace the right analog stick with a trackball.
Ta-da!

Keep that image in your head (if you can :) and think of this:
Use the crosspad to move forwards and backwards as well as strafe
Use the trackball for freelooking
L1 & L2 would be jump and crouch
R1 & R2 would be fire and [alt-fire, use, zoom whatever]

For other functions your right thumb is well within reach of four more buttons to tackle things as reloading and weapon menu.

Yes, weapon menu. I can't explain it, really, you just have to play Turok 2 on N64 to see how two buttons can get you any 16 weapons instantly, no constant switching! Press the weapon button and a ring pops up on the screen, like a compass. North, NE, East, SE, South, SW, West, and NW are all guns... simply press in the direction of the gun you want and let go of the weapon button. Quick and painless, compared to tapping weapon cycle left four times... :) Hell, if nothing else you could set up on the left stick to Gauntlet, up-right to Machine Gun, Right to Shotgun... heheh.

Keep in mind, of course, that this pad would still have primitive force feedback support powered by the USB. At least Soldier of Fortune tried it, and dammit I like it! :P

Here's the other big bonus... this gamepad would STILL do wonders for sports games, racing gmaes, and all of your emulators. Most FPS-geared gamepads simply only work well with FPS games, not so with this one! One simple change turns something useless into something quite handy, wouldn't you agree?

A lotta gamepad making companies have been burned making pads for FPS use only, but all my idea does is turn a useless feature into a single feature that allows full FPS control! Nothing lost, plenty gained. Even if you can't make the adjustment to this pad for FPS gaming you STILL have a damn good gamepad for all of your other gaming needs. :)

Now then, there is only one snag I can foresee to this ordeal and it's a pretty damn big one so listen up.

I came onto this problem when configuring my Hammerhead FX pad (very similar to one above). The digital pad really isn't a digital pad, it's a POV hat. Through the driver software I can have the pad act as the X/Y axis, but the left analog stick still keeps this axis during this setting.

My problem?
When I tried to have the right stick act as X/Y (which I could never do right anyway) the pad must remain a POV hat. The problem is that the POV hat has 8 direction inputs! So, pressing up and right does not equal up-right, it equals an unassigned function. I don't expect game designers to add 'move forward and strafe right' commands to accommodate this. Instead the driver software would need a compensation option to limit the d-pad to only 4 actions, up down left and right so the diagonals work.

The driver software would also need the option to assign the X and Y axis to the trackball since that's what most games are designed for it to read.

So, a quick little button on the setup screen for X/Y axis to belong to:
Digital Pad
Analog Stick
Trackball
All the device inputs should be separate anyway, I just think InterAct half-assed my Hammerhead pad...

...as well as the option to limit the d-pad to only 4 inputs. That's the big snag, and that can be worked around with decent drivers! :)




So once again, yes, I have envisioned a gamepad that would allow for REAL freelook and strafing capability.

I want some feedback on this because you know that FPS games are coming to consoles with greater speed than ever before. I do know that a gamepad will simply NEVER replace a keyboard and mouse, however, with 4 people in front of one system this is a much more viable solution.

Think of a PS Dual Shock controller with the only change the right analog stick swapped with a trackball just to control FPS games. In what other games would you MISS the right analog?

Hell, the Gamecube controller looks almost perfect for this as it is!

What really forced me to think about this? Getting my ass kicked by Phobos in Q3A on the DC just because the gamepad eats ass and was never designed to play this type of game.
/me hangs his head in shame
How come your twin on my PC is such a bitch then, eh DC Q3A Phobos? Thought so.

Share this post


Link to post

I've heard tell that the X-Box will come with a mouse. If it doesn't, I don't see how the hell anyone can expect to be able to play Halo...

Anyway, if it does come with a mouse, the way that they all pinch ideas from each other will probaly mean that other consoles start shipping with mice too, rather tham just having them available as extras as some of them do at the momment.

I've also heard that the only console Carmack really likes is the X-Box anyway, so possibly Doom 3 will only be available initally on the PC and X-Box, although of course other companies are bound to port them (let's just hope that these ports are not as horrible as some of the Quake 1, 2 and 3 ports out there).

Share this post


Link to post

But then again, consoles have had mice available since the SNES half a decade ago and that still hasn't happened yet.

What horrible Quake ports, you mean the one on the Saturn? ;)

Share this post


Link to post

I haven't seen that one, but I was referring to Quake 1 on the Playstation and Quake 2 on the SNES.

Update: Or was that the other way round? I forget :)

Share this post


Link to post

No Quake game made it to the SNES, only Wolf3D and Doom did.

I don't recall Quake for PSX, although there was Quake 2 and it played incredibly well considering it's on a system with only 2 megs of ram!

Quake and Quake 2 both made it to the N64, and both were decent. Quake 2 on N64 was a great four player deathmatch though, awesome party game.

Share this post


Link to post

Looks like a fairly typical controller to me.

The problem with gamepads is: the're counter-intuitive.

The Mouselook, WASD, Space jump, C crouch, Shift run, and so on setup did not appear, full-grown "from the head of Zeus". It evolved.

In Doom days most of us were using the keyboard (only), with the Arrow Keys for movement, Space for use, Ctrl for fire, and so on, and when I first played games with a mouse, it was a total headfuck (like Quake), but I got over that quickly, and with the rest of the people I knew, transitioned from a Arrow Keys and Mouse set-up to the more comfortable and sane WASD setup, which first appeared in game as standard (IIRC) in HalfLife, so is fairly recent.

Anyway, my point is, it evolved because it's effecient, it's quick and easy, you don't have to think, and even new players get it very quickly indeed (IMX).

Joypads are always screwy for FPSes. They never have enough buttons, and the buttons are never positioned right. They require MASSIVE manual dexterity to use with any degree of skill (it's like being able rub your stomach and pat your read at the same time, on x10), and good memory too, and I speak as someone who's been playing FPSes on a pad since Turok (which just about managed it, though jumps were a nightmare), and will NEVER be as easy to use as a mouse and keyboard, not so much for the analog sticks as for the oddly positioned keys, often with complex, counter-intuitive fuctions.

Now, your idea to make one of the sticks into a trackball is a good one. Have you seen a proper DC pad? (Later: Duh, you're talking about DC Q3!) They have bulged out sticks which are very like a kind of "stick-ball" (hah!), a sort of trackball that springs back into place. That's alot better for pointing than the typical PS/PS2 ones (less good for driving, though).

Your idea is better still. It's nothing short of brilliant in fact. Get a patent for this man! No sarcasm! Seriously, it's in exactly the right place for a small trackball, and wouldn't screw up my control of, say, Grand Turismo 3000, which requires a small, centered stick. It would speed up buying parts for the cars too!

Really, I can't understand why someone hasn't done this before.

Damn, really, it's a stroke of genius.

(I sound so sarcastic, I'm not, but I can think of so many games this would be bloody useful on. My personal "nightmarish console FPS" was MDK2 on the DC. Move with the buttons, aim with the DC-ball, jump on the right trigger, fire on the left, digital pad to change weapons, and so on, and my brain damned near exploded).

Get someone to make it!

Share this post


Link to post
deadnail said:

No Quake game made it to the SNES, only Wolf3D and Doom did.

I don't recall Quake for PSX, although there was Quake 2 and it played incredibly well considering it's on a system with only 2 megs of ram!

Quake and Quake 2 both made it to the N64, and both were decent. Quake 2 on N64 was a great four player deathmatch though, awesome party game.

I'm sure I've seen a Quake one game on the SNES, maybe I'm thinking of the N64 though. Either way it was bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Eurhetemec said:

What the hell is up with the WASD setup? Using C to crouch and spacebar to jump... with my arrow keys and right ctrl duck and keypad 0 jump setup I can reach them all easily! :P

The analog sticks are PERFECT for controlling a flight sim or a 3D action adventure game. Some games, like survival horror or good old fashioned 2D fighting, require the more precise control of the cross pad. Freelook, on the other hand, is almost impossible to get away with on an analog stick. Why? You can't suddenly stop, and you can't spin fast enough then at the same time be able to make very precise shots. Simple as that!

The DC analog (sorry to you Brits, analouge) isn't a trackball, it's just a regular stick. However, it's very very VERY poorly designed! It has to travel way to far to reach it's maximum input (the damn thing nearly has to go sideways!!) and it has a convex head... which is MUCH more difficult to hold onto compared to a concave head.

The analog sticks on the PSX Dual Shock controller are DAMN near perfect for their intended use. From Crash to Omega Boost they just give you awesome response! The N64 one is okay... but the games are quirky in themselves.

Fuck the N64. At least the gamepad for that thing is designed for TWO HANDS. Gee, what a fucking convenience Nintendo, thanks. Have you seen it yet? Go to http://www.nintendo.com and find some pics of the Gamecube, that controller looks pretty happenin'.

I would LOVE if someone made this thing, I really would! Especially considering ***TWO*** of the PS2's launch games were FPS shooters, it just makes fucking sense!

It's time, Sony!
It's time, Sega!
It's time, InterAct!

Jesus Christ I hope someone that knows someone that knows someone for one of those fuckers points 'em to this page!

BTW, what do you think of my suggested configuration? R1 fire and L1 jump and so forth... does ALL of this sound good or does anything bug ya???????

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Johnny Kaos
NiGHTMARE said:

I'm sure I've seen a Quake one game on the SNES, maybe I'm thinking of the N64 though. Either way it was bad.

I think they pulled it off with q3a on the DC fairly well.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest JudgeDooM
deadnail said:

No Quake game made it to the SNES, only Wolf3D and Doom did.

I don't recall Quake for PSX, although there was Quake 2 and it played incredibly well considering it's on a system with only 2 megs of ram!

Quake and Quake 2 both made it to the N64, and both were decent. Quake 2 on N64 was a great four player deathmatch though, awesome party game.

Oh yeah! Q II on N64 rocks! It has cool ambience, creepy music and beautiful lighting effects. And the multiplayer is very entertaining, you don't get fed up after an hour, you still want to play!

Share this post


Link to post

personaly, i played q2 on the n64 and the playstation, i didnt like them that much, i have played q2 on the pc, well the demo, i love it, i ordered q2 as a present to my self, hopefully it will get here soon, i paid extra for next day air, but, what the hell, no one cares, cheerleaders look yummy 8D

Share this post


Link to post
Guest elyuca

Why not have the buttons be behind the controller, I mean your thumb is doing all the work while the rest of the fingers just hold the controler.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
×