Should Doom (4) be scary?

Because, and I know I'm not alone here, Doom 64 and PSX Doom/Final Doom are still pretty frightening, even today, due to the enhanced visuals and sound design. Neo-Doom definitely has some macabre and tense moments, but I haven't really felt much of a horror vibe. Does such an aesthetic choice belong here? I think it does. I would love to experience moments where I'm on the edge of my seat, sweating bullets.

I haven't noticed any more horror like elements either, not in the general sense anyways. Everything has more of an Evil Dead Horror aesthetic, but otherwise it does seem to lack anything scary other than "Holy Shit that Monster just came out of nowhere it looks feakish and he's trying to blow me apart." The scene in the demo where Doomguy looks at the holo recording seems to carry a bit of a horror element, as well as the blood splattered hallway with pentagrams, but otherwise it's hard to tell.

To be fair, they may be a bit cautious with doing horror related stuff because they may feel as if there was some backlash with Doom 3's direction, so they may be actively avoiding that.

And don't forget Doom 3, which had a great atmosphere and played in parts almost like a survival horror.

I hope Doom 4 will also have some scary parts.

I say why not take advantage of both worlds? Since the original Dooms are viewed as pure action (in today's standards) and Doom 3 was more dark corridor horror (or terror). Both play styles has their charms and I don't see them conflicting with one another if done right.

Considering how modern machines can now handle their share of stress, why not start the game with Horror elements with starting weaponry and then gradually become a fast paced action game. With moments of horror still lurking about throughout the game.

The change to hunter hunted can be very satisfying. You're first getting freaked out by Hellish anomalies and demons hunting you down as you try to survive with your limited resources but then the tables turn. You have a large arsenal of weapons, heavy metal plays and you charge head on with super shotgun and minigun mowing down all the weaker demons while out running the larger beasts.

It is very apparent that doom 4 incorporates all previous dooms in someways. Like forexample the scaryness of doom 3 is still in because of the darker areas and look at the handscene forexample..

I hope that it does have some scary moments, just to break up the pacing a little bit. I think the first FEAR had some good pacing with big firefights followed by slow, scary areas. I think that would be a good example of the type of pacing Doom should have: big, huge firefights followed by slower, scarier portions.

It'll probably have parts like that, but I think overall they're going for a more action-focused game this time around. Everything we've seen has suggested a faster, more arcadey approach.

Remember, they pushed the horror side of the game with Doom 3 and everyone complained it wasn't fast enough.

Shortest answer i might give is "Yes" , although i haven't seen any horror elements in it so far .

Chezza said:

why not start the game with Horror elements with starting weaponry and then gradually become a fast paced action game. With moments of horror still lurking about throughout the game.

I also thought about this. You could even start with slow player speed and normal vulnerability, and then you slowly collect upgrades for your powersuit and gradually turn into a fast, acrobatic killing machine.

I'm definitely all for mixing it up a little. Personally I think games and movies that focus on being scary all the time tend to end up being depressing rather than frightening.

The overall art-style is clearly more Doom 3 inspired while the action seems to be more trying to be similar to Classic Doom. Doom 3's style of horror, in my opinion, wasn't that good. It relied on more surprise gotchya moments that, honestly, Classic Doom did better in my opinion. The only thing Doom 3 really has on Classic Doom in the horror department is having more grotesque looking monsters but that alone doesn't make it effective horror.

MetroidJunkie said:

Doom 3's style of horror, in my opinion, wasn't that good. It relied on more surprise gotchya moments

Doom 3's horror relied mainly on atmosphere (excellent soundscape), the use of shadows, light and darkness, scarce ammo and a relatively vulnerable and slow player character. The scripted events also were part of the horror, but not the only thing it relied on.

My main hope that it goes for a gritty, oppressive atmosphere and not some cartoony YEAH BADASS shit where evil isn't scary but instead just kinda cool looking. I'm afraid it's sort of heading in that direction, though, what with the motherfucking cyberdemon and generally the sort of cartoony rock textures in hell.

This is kind of like what diablo 3 became compared to diablo 2.

Tetzlaff said:

Doom 3's horror relied mainly on atmosphere (excellent soundscape), the use of shadows, light and darkness, scarce ammo and a relatively vulnerable and slow player character. The scripted events also were part of the horror, but not the only thing it relied on.

None of those elements really worked to produce tension in my opinion, the darkness was more annoying than anything.

It definitely worked for me. That game still has one of the most tense and oppressive atmospheres for me even after beating it many times.

Tetzlaff said:

Doom 3's horror relied mainly on atmosphere (excellent soundscape), the use of shadows, light and darkness, scarce ammo and a relatively vulnerable and slow player character. The scripted events also were part of the horror, but not the only thing it relied on.

I don't remember Doom 3 having scarce ammo. I remember the ammo being plentiful. The only time the ammo was scarce was immediately after the hell levels when you had no guns, however, your ammo stores quickly recovered.

However, I do agree that Doom 3's horror relied on atmosphere more than anything. I really hope they don't forget about the atmosphere in Doom 4.

doom_is_great said:

I don't remember Doom 3 having scarce ammo. I remember the ammo being plentiful. The only time the ammo was scarce was immediately after the hell levels when you had no guns, however, your ammo stores quickly recovered.

And that makes me wonder why they increased the ammo to ridiculous amounts in BFG edition.

It sort of tried to be both at the same time. It tried to be a horror experience but it also tried to be like Classic Doom with its run and gun focus. Thing is, those two are almost impossible to conjoin in an effective way because making the player feel in control removes almost all of what makes a horror game so effective in the first place, that feeling of helplessness. Psx Doom, Doom 64, and from what I see the new Doom are more or less the mainstream type of horror survival where it's an action game with just a horror theme slapped over it. Of course, in Doom's case, it's justified because those games were still trying to be action, unlike Doom 3 that tried to be both.

What scares one person may not scare the other. That is why horror games and movies are usually a gamble since trying to scare everyone is pretty much impossible.

Doom 3 was spooky but that was it. I probably jumped more times playing classic originally than Doom 3.

doom_is_great said:

I don't remember Doom 3 having scarce ammo. I remember the ammo being plentiful.

Did you play the BFG edition? Because they increased the ammo pickups there. I also forgot to mention scarce health as well. I often creeped arround with 20% - 30% health and found just a barely sufficient ammount of health to survive. It was quite tense and really well balanced to keep you on your toes IMO.

Tetzlaff said:

Did you play the BFG edition? Because they increased the ammo pickups there. I also forgot to mention scarce health as well. I often creeped arround with 20% - 30% health and found just a barely sufficient ammount of health to survive. It was quite tense and really well balanced to keep you on your toes IMO.

No, I played the original Doom 3, not the BFG edition. And even in the original, I felt the health, ammo, and guns were plentiful. I was almost never lacking in ammo.

Marty Stratton discussed this question a couple weeks ago:

http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/feature/interview-marty-stratton-on-doom,410773/page3

Interviewer:

Doom 3 has a scary mood and slow pace. Doom seems completely different. Are you carrying over some of those elements to the game, or is it just fast-paced action?

Marty Stratton:

It’s, uh, I would say, big picture, it’s more of the fast-based action and improvisational nature of the game, there’s way more of that than the slower-paced part of Doom 3. The way I’ve described it to people is, when we started about what we wanted this Doom to be, we did a breakdown of all of the Doom games and our feelings about Doom. ‘What did we find awesome about playing Doom? What was most meaningful to us as players?’ Over the course of days, we put all of it up on boards and crossed things out, moved things around and said, at the end, that got to what we felt like people would want out of a new Doom game.

Yes, there are elements of the past in there and there are elements of Doom 3 and there are all kinds of things that make up the DNA of Doom. And not feeling like we were bound to any one thing. What did we feel like was going to be the Doom of now and the future? That’s kind of where we landed. It ended up being very much more we wanted to emphasise the action side of it. We wanted the faster movement, no reloading, or even just focusing on the faster movement, incredible fights with massive amounts of demons and making weapons really good, which is the star of the show. Those things drive you away from that sense of scary, I’m moving slow… it’s just different. When Doom 3 was made, there are certainly core elements of Doom 1 and Doom 2 that inspired the way that things went with Doom 3.

Tim [Willits] led that project and I worked on that, Robert Duffy who’s our technical director, he worked on Doom 2. We have a lot of people who’ve worked on both games and it’s cool. I think it’s awesome that Doom 3 took those horror elements of Doom and shined a light on those and said, ‘This is our interpretation of the horror of Doom.’ We’re taking the action of Doom and that’s where we’re focusing our energy. Again, I think we got to a place where we felt like taking nothing away from Doom 3, we felt like fans, and us as fans of the franchise and of games, that this was a good time to do this. This was a good time to… it was a good time to reinvigorate these characters and put a new face on a lot of this stuff… put a face, a modern face on these things that are just so iconic and so loved.

doom_is_great said:

No, I played the original Doom 3, not the BFG edition. And even in the original, I felt the health, ammo, and guns were plentiful. I was almost never lacking in ammo.

By the third level I had 320 shotgun shells...yeah.

Unless you are afraid of blood and spilled guts, then there are hrror elements.
Not saying you are. Just look at Doom 3 and its horror elements. It didn't fit well for the idea of "Doom" a demon killing machine game into a survival horror shooter...
Doom 2016/DOOM won't be scary, but it can be startling at times, like when Doomguy heard that loud scream in the reveal at the molten metal factory video (you know which one, right in the beginning), or when a zombie comes right in front of you/demon teleports in front of your face. Nothing serious. Just small shockings here and there, where ideal (let's hope it won't be like Doom 3... I know it won't!)

Voros said:

Unless you are afraid of blood and spilled guts, then there are hrror elements.
Not saying you are. Just look at Doom 3 and its horror elements. It didn't fit well for the idea of "Doom" a demon killing machine game into a survival horror shooter...
Doom 2016/DOOM won't be scary, but it can be startling at times, like when Doomguy heard that loud scream in the reveal at the molten metal factory video (you know which one, right in the beginning), or when a zombie comes right in front of you/demon teleports in front of your face. Nothing serious. Just small shockings here and there, where ideal (let's hope it won't be like Doom 3... I know it won't!)

So your entire post can be summed up by saying "Doom 4 probably won't be like Doom 3", when the quote from Marty Stratton 2 posts up from yours literally confirms that this is in fact the case. Please read before you post.

I've always felt that the horror elements in Doom should come across through disturbing imagery and creative use of sound. It's not a series that needs jump scares and an ultra serious tone. Many people forget that Doom 1 and 2 were pretty scary for their time and Doom 64's design is still quite creepy. I can't be the only one who still dreads having to enter a dark lit room when replaying the classic Doom games. Basically what I'm saying is: the game should be designed to be a fun action game but go all out with it's hellish aesthetic. Soundwise, it would be nice if they could find a nice balance between the ominous music and the metal tracks but I'm fine if they continue with the more atmospheric root.

ChickenOrBeef said:

Marty Stratton discussed this question a couple weeks ago:

"I think it’s awesome that Doom 3 took those horror elements of Doom and shined a light on those and said, ‘This is our interpretation of the horror of Doom.’ We’re taking the action of Doom and that’s where we’re focusing our energy."

That pretty much answers the question. Doom 4 will probably have some athmospheric, gloomy scenarios and soundscapes, but will have none of the more Survival Horror-like elements of Doom 3.

I got some chills when Hell appeared, I think It should go for a PSX DOOM feel, It's still ridiculous, and fast-paced, but It's still a spooky feel.

I will admit, the mutated zombies were pretty creepy too, and It had a nice slow pace before going fast and actiony, I guess It's going for a Evil Dead 1/2 mix In this DOOM.

The yellow smog thing just doesn't seem fitting for hell, in my opinion. It'd make more sense if it was more like Classic Doom and had more grotesque features like intestinal walls and half destroyed corpses everywhere. This hell looks more like the surface of Venus which, I admit, is at least accurate in the "very hot place" perspective but it lacks that demonic feel. It feels more like a barren wasteland you could find on Earth.

Tetzlaff said:

That pretty much answers the question. Doom 4 will probably have some athmospheric, gloomy scenarios and soundscapes, but will have none of the more Survival Horror-like elements of Doom 3.

As if all of that wasn't pretty obvious from the various media they've released so far.

MetroidJunkie said:

The yellow smog thing just doesn't seem fitting for hell, in my opinion. It'd make more sense if it was more like Classic Doom and had more grotesque features like intestinal walls and half destroyed corpses everywhere. This hell looks more like the surface of Venus which, I admit, is at least accurate in the "very hot place" perspective but it lacks that demonic feel. It feels more like a barren wasteland you could find on Earth.

This looks more like the surface of venus, a barren wasteland you could find on earth.

Also, classic visions of Hell describe it as a place of "Fire and Brimstone". Brimstone is sulfur, and gives off yellow smoke when burned.