Give me a theme/restriction and I'll speedmap! [5 MAPS DONE]

schwerpunk said:

EDIT: quote b/c newpage


Great music. Died instantly, lol. Gonna try again later.

EDIT2: I lied and tried again. This time died to the Archvile. Definitely going to be a multiple playthrough map. Ammo and health balance looks good, going by the first 60 seconds. :p

Music is MM MAP08. I love that piece of music, and it's intense as well!

Thanks! I am never able to get proper balance, so this is really helpful!

Holy shit I found a critical bug. Raising one bar raises another, and that shouldn't happen i.e. if you go left first, you don't have to go to the right.

I fixed it here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/iyuplux2au61ynx/closeenc.wad. Now you have to get both switches, I think. It's something with MAKESECTORS and idk

Voltcom9 said:

I was really surprised by this map. It was merciless and killed me several times but it was fairly detailed and fun to play. Good job.

I'm looking forward to seeing what else you come up with on this thread.

Thank you very much. It's my first speedmap, and I didn't expect it to be that good either. Yes, I know it's merciless (especially the Arch-Viles) but aren't almost all of speedmaps merciless?

Thanks for your opinion!

Did you aim for any specific compatibility? Vanilla, Boom, ZDoom? I think I know what you'll answer, though.

Nice map. I liked killing barons with plasmagun :) Arches made hardest gameplay for me.

Linedef 681 missng upper texture. And secret in the sector 124 is unaccessable.

@scifista42 Vanilla Doom II. I wanted to take a break from using textures as flats. Buuuuuut I accidentally used STONE as a flat so it's ZDoom.

@Vanger_ru I know that secret is not accesible. I may fix that too. About the linedef that's missing a texture, I did not notice that. It's probably a monster closet.

I'm on my way to fix it.

Fixed version: http://www.mediafire.com/download/iyuplux2au61ynx/closeenc.wad

No more missing textures, and that secret should be accessible now!

DoomLover234 said:

@scifista42 Vanilla Doom II.

Really? I will play it in Chocolate Doom and record a demo for you, then. Hopefully you avoided zdoomisms, because you know, the fact that you've used "Doom 2" editor configuration doesn't guarantee that the map is actually properly working in vanilla if you haven't playtested it in vanilla/Chocolate.

scifista42 said:

Really? I will play it in Chocolate Doom and record a demo for you, then. Hopefully you avoided zdoomisms, because you know, the fact that you've used "Doom 2" editor configuration doesn't guarantee that the map is actually properly working in vanilla if you haven't playtested it in vanilla/Chocolate.

There are only two STONE textures. I fixed them, as well as a lift bug, and hopefully this is the final update: http://www.mediafire.com/download/iyuplux2au61ynx/closeenc.wad

The map is broken in prBoom+ complevel 2 because the sector tagged 10 doesn't lower, apparently. I don't know why -- maybe something to do with the way the linedefs are pointed? It works in complevel 9, however.

Anyway, I killed 26/30 monsters and got stuck there. The barrel imps were funny. :D

I have a demo if you want one, but it's probably not too useful.

As I thought, the map turned out to not really be vanilla compatible. Firstly, it contains a zero-sized REJECT lump, a result of using a node builder with "no reject" option, but vanilla doesn't accept such maps. Secondly, there is apparently CRATOP1 used as a texture somewhere, which made Chocolate Doom crash upon startup. Thirdly, I briefly looked at the map's layout and amount of detail and I suspect it could be exceeding VISPLANE or DRAWSEG static limits (in which case the map would still be considered limit-removing).

I attempted recording a demo in PrBoom-plus -complevel 2 (vanilla limit-removing compatibility) instead. There was a missing texture on a certain crate, and more importantly, the 2nd bars never opened (probably were blocked by monster's bodies stuck in ceiling or something), so that I had to give up the playthrough.

This is why you should never claim that your map is compatible with X if you haven't actually playtested it in X.

I think it should work now. Yes, the platform not having the sky texture was intentional. I updated the texture for the crate and tested it in -complevel 2. It should work fine now! Same link!
http://www.mediafire.com/download/iyuplux2au61ynx/closeenc.wad

Is this good "D:\Wads\zdoom.exe" -file closeenc.wad -complevel 2

Also you can show me demos if this works!

No, ZDoom doesn't have complevels, it's a PrBoom-plus specific feature. ZDoom's compatibility with classic engines is way too imperfect to reliably use ZDoom for verifying vanilla compatibility in any way. You should download Chocolate Doom and PrBoom-plus for that.

DoomLover234 said:

Is this good "D:\Wads\zdoom.exe" -file closeenc.wad -complevel 2

When a complevel is mentioned, it implies the port is PRBoom+, not ZDoom.

Here's a complevel 9 demo (not a FDA), where I rush through the map to get to the last fight: http://www.mediafire.com/download/b4lk3dowzlvv324/closeenc_rdwpa.lmp.

Some feedback:

-- 64-wide areas (like the narrow doors most of the level uses) are usually a bit awkward to move around in; try not to rely on those too much. Even 80- or 96-wide areas can convey a "claustrophobic" feel but without making it a chore to maneuver.

-- Lots of the combat in this level is monodirectional -- monsters face you from one angle, you shoot at them, and you duck behind cover if needed. That's generally not too challenging. It's generally better to send opposition from multiple directions. You can employ monodirectional combat in a "hold the breach" style situation, with lots of monsters pouring out and the player having to fight them back, but that usually works only when the player can't simply run back to safety in another area. (Imagine a bunch of revs pouring down a hallway into a room the player is in, and the player can't retreat, and the player has to kill a bunch of them quickly or risk being swarmed.) Also "projectile hell" type fights, where the player is facing a wall of monsters on a ledge or something and has to kill the monsters while dodging everything and can't simply run away to pick them off in safety. Monodirectional combat can work, but as a default it's generally better to go multidirectional. The trap in this map at the start would be a good example if the player couldn't simply back up into the start room (if for example that door closed when the player left it).

-- Anyway, aesthetically, what you've done is pretty decent for a 2-hr speedmap. The layout is a bit blocky, with room-hallway-room type construction, but the texture use and detailing is decent.

-- The last AV and the two-HK trap at the start are good. The latter can catch the player by surprise if their sound system doesn't make it obvious that there's sound behind them too.

-- One way to revamp the last fight is to make the last room a lock-in (have a door shut behind the player), keep the spiderdemon hidden at first, change the baron to a hell knight and confine it to the exit (so that it's not easy for the player to just leave the map, but not so tedious to kill the non-threatening exit guardian*), and then have the player trigger something to reveal all of the monsters (maybe opening the exit door opens everything else too). Then you can change the switch on the spiderdemon platform into something that reopens the room, so that the player can go back out and search for secrets if they want to.


*Actually, rockets and plasma make it quick enough to get past a single baron, so a baron would do.

scifista42 said:

This is why you should never claim that your map is compatible with X if you haven't actually playtested it in X.

Yeah, this is really important.

Anyway, keep it up. Speedmapping is a good way to improve!

schwerpunk said:

Mostly damaging floors (~80%), no radsuit.

EDIT: forgot theme, how about a warren

Okay, since I'm doing this by order. It will certainly be very fun to make!

What IS a warren anyway?

Voltcom9 said:

First google search:

war·ren
ˈwôrən,ˈwärən/Submit
noun
noun: warren; plural noun: warrens; noun: rabbit warren; plural noun: rabbit

warrens
- a network of interconnecting rabbit burrows.
- a densely populated or labyrinthine building or district.
- "a warren of narrow gas-lit streets"

British historical
an enclosed piece of land set aside for breeding game, especially rabbits.

Yeah when I googled this i found rabbit burrows too so I am making a ground cave-ish thing with many damaging floors. Thanks for the help!

Flooded rural area.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/c1zru4rdwsl5yc7/toxrabit.wad

The Toxic Rabbit! (warren)

My second speedmap. Lots of nasty traps, but some of those are easy, such as the Revenant one. It shouldn't post a threat to any of you. It has many monsters but it's a small map overall. It's fun to play at least.

No secrets. I'll playtest it in vanilla to ensure max compactibility.

Update v1, same link.

The door that was locked when you entered the big slime area could not be opened again do to me putting a W1 instead of a S1 Door Open Stay (fast).

Works in Vanilla, at least for me, and I used vanilla Doom II, played in DosBox 0.75.

Nice one. The HK/trooper ambush almost got me.

-- The level is broken because there are three walkover-once triggers that raise a barrier to the left side but only one switch-once trigger that lowers it. When I went to leave the area, the barrier raised up again and I was stuck.

-- There's a patch of solid ground that is damaging, sector 94.

-- This is the sort of level that actually doesn't need that many lock-ins, because the damaging floor acts as a "soft barrier". The one for the first trap on the left side seemed a bit overkill because of how light the opposition was. The way the level is designed, and with the sort of fights you are using, it's a strong candidate for "multi-room" fights, where monsters warp in not only in the room the player is in but also in other rooms, and sort of converge on the player.

Anyway, for future levels where you want to use lock-ins, it's worth looking at some alternatives to a barrier rising. (Relying on it wasn't bad in this level -- it gave the level some thematic unity -- but it's generally useful to mix it up across your whole catalog.)

Some ideas:

1. A mid-tier monster warps in to guard the way out, kept there with block-monster lines (and ideally, participating in the fight somehow instead of just being there as a sentry).

2. Drop offs in the floor height level.

3. One-way doors and lifts (it's often useful to signal that a door can be opened only one way by making it open-close and making its trigger mechanism a switch).

4. The "way out" is a damaging floor, and the player won't get a radsuit until s/he wins the fight.

5. Fights that take place in lowered areas, where the way out is a lift, and the player will inevitably have to clear out some monsters in order to ride the lift safely.

6. Teleportation (shouldn't be relied on too much -- it can feel lazy because it's so easy).

rdwpa said:

Nice one. The HK/trooper ambush almost got me.

-- The level is broken because there are three walkover-once triggers that raise a barrier to the left side but only one switch-once trigger that lowers it. When I went to leave the area, the barrier raised up again and I was stuck.

-- There's a patch of solid ground that is damaging, sector 94.

-- This is the sort of level that actually doesn't need that many lock-ins, because the damaging floor acts as a "soft barrier". The one for the first trap on the left side seemed a bit overkill because of how light the opposition was. The way the level is designed, and with the sort of fights you are using, it's a strong candidate for "multi-room" fights, where monsters warp in not only in the room the player is in but also in other rooms, and sort of converge on the player.

Anyway, for future levels where you want to use lock-ins, it's worth looking at some alternatives to a barrier rising. (Relying on it wasn't bad in this level -- it gave the level some thematic unity -- but it's generally useful to mix it up across your whole catalog.)

Some ideas:

1. A mid-tier monster warps in to guard the way out, kept there with block-monster lines (and ideally, participating in the fight somehow instead of just being there as a sentry).

2. Drop offs in the floor height level.

3. One-way doors and lifts (it's often useful to signal that a door can be opened only one way by making it open-close and making its trigger mechanism a switch).

4. The "way out" is a damaging floor, and the player won't get a radsuit until s/he wins the fight.

5. Fights that take place in lowered areas, where the way out is a lift, and the player will inevitably have to clear out some monsters in order to ride the lift safely.

6. Teleportation (shouldn't be relied on too much -- it can feel lazy because it's so easy).

Oh that is a critical bug. I will try to fix it ASAP.

Thank you for your suggestion and your criticizm!

my FDA, Chocolate Doom, HMP, three deaths, did not complete. Farthest I got was 2/3 keys.

Somehow a fresh take on the 'central hub' theme. Above average lighting work; good difficulty; fun and multi-directional encounters; maybe too many traps, but I liked them, especially how they meshed well with progression through the map; ugly automap; some weird texture choices, but everything pops well. Didn't encounter any bugs. Would like to see a custom midi for this.

7/10 for the map, with +2 for conforming to restrictions and somehow making it fun and good looking at the same time. +1 for map name. 10/10, all told.

2DA, avoiding the stuckening, prBoom+ cl2.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/f41f8z8a0au442c/tox_rdwpa_2DA.lmp

schwerpunk said:

my FDA, Chocolate Doom, HMP, three deaths, did not complete. Farthest I got was 2/3 keys.

Somehow a fresh take on the 'central hub' theme. Above average lighting work; good difficulty; fun and multi-directional encounters; maybe too many traps, but I liked them, especially how they meshed well with progression through the map; ugly automap; some weird texture choices, but everything pops well. Didn't encounter any bugs. Would like to see a custom midi for this.

7/10 for the map, with +2 for conforming to restrictions and somehow making it fun and good looking at the same time. +1 for map name. 10/10, all told.

I gave it Mark Klem's Scary 2 MIDI. It works in ZDoom for me. But perhaps I must rename it to D_RUNNIN (because it's named SCARY2MK in MAPINFO)

Thank you very much for your criticism!

I cannot open the demo file, unfortunately. ZDoom can't play them, and PRBoom+ and GLBoom don't let me even open them. Too bad.

It works now, I got the wrong directory.

Voltcom9 said:

Again this was a fun short map to play.
It was interesting to see how you interpreted that theme. I'm looking forward to playing through the next map already.

Oh thank you very much!

FDA. For a speedmap, it's something I'd call "good but not great". Nukage was used well, though. Challenge amount was between easy and medium, which is OK. The blue key area was a fair little challenge, I just so sucked that I died there. I think there was a sector in the red key area that was damaging but shouldn't have been.