Doom 2 actors in Doom 1

I'm currently working on a DeHackEd patch that enables doom 2 actors for use in doom 1. Monsters show up but are unable to see the player, if woken up by a sound they walk around but don't attack. The megasphere is visible as well, but it cannot be picked up.

I've seen this done before in Zdoom, I'm talking about vanilla.

uhbooh said:

Monsters show up but are unable to see the player, if woken up by a sound they walk around but don't attack.

That may be because you use them in a test map which consists of a single sector. Certain reject builders mess up their work when a map consists of a single sector, which results in all line-of-sight checks being evaluated as false, which results in monsters who never attack.

uhbooh said:

The megasphere is visible as well, but it cannot be picked up.

That's vanilla's hardcoded behavior when Doom 1 is loaded as an IWAD, same as the fact that the SSG can't be manually selected (although the SSG is possible to be picked up at least). There is no way around this.

I'm not an expert on Dehacked but that doesn't sound like something that's possible without some bugs.

Out of curiosity why would you need Doom 2 monsters in Doom 1?

Maybe he's making a new Episode 5. I could see three AVs on thrones as the ending of E5M8.

Nah, definitely IoS version 0.5. It'll just be Romero's head out in the open, throwing insults rather than monster spawners.

*Edit* down two posts:
I was right! Lol jk

That may be because you use them in a test map which consists of a single sector. Certain reject builders mess up their work when a map consists of a single sector, which results in all line-of-sight checks being evaluated as false, which results in monsters who never attack.

That was the problem, thanks!

Out of curiosity why would you need Doom 2 monsters in Doom 1?

Doom 2 doesn't have episodes

I almost forgot to ask, is it possible to get the icon of sin working in d1? I got it to spit the cubes but they don't react to the spawn spot.

This is definitely possible with dehacked. I've got a working wad file and Doom Builder configurations which I'll post when I'm next at my computer, give me 24 hours.

If you can't wait, you need to load doom as your iwad and then doom2 as a pwad to get the extra data. However the engine will block the use of the doom2 thing numbers, so you need to use dehacked to change the thing numbers, then use a new Doom Builder configuration to make it easier to build your map with the changed thing numbers.

As far as I can tell, the megasphere will simply never work though, sorry! Also, while the SSG will work, the engine will block you from actually swapping to it except when you first pick it up, so your only option is to swasp out the BFG for it (the BFG is the only other weapon that handles spending multiple ammo at once, which is why you can't swap out the chainsaw or whatever). This also has the drawback of making the SSG only selectable via slot 7 and enforces the "safety catch" feature the BFG has onto it where it won't fire if you're holding down the fire button when selecting it.

Some other minor implementation tweaks needed too but I can go into better detail tomorrow. It's not 100% perfect but it works.

uhbooh said:

That was the problem, thanks!

Doom 2 doesn't have episodes

Seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to maintain the episodic format. What about converting Doom 2's format to episodes? Or is that impossible?

Seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to maintain the episodic format. What about converting Doom 2's format to episodes? Or is that impossible?

It's possible to do that with an advanced source port such as eternity or zdoom. In vanilla, however, you're forced to use the ExMy format in D1 and MAPxy in D2.

That episodic format also allows 36 levels rather than Doom 2's 32. Boss levels are another exclusive to D1's format.

uhbooh said:

I almost forgot to ask, is it possible to get the icon of sin working in d1? I got it to spit the cubes but they don't react to the spawn spot.

I'm at least inclined to believe that this is possible. Make sure you changed the spawn spot's spawn id like you presumably did with all other D2-specific objects in order to make them spawn in vanilla.

EDIT: I have just looked at the respective parts of vanilla Doom's source code, and I couldn't find anything that would prevent monster spawners from working in D1.

EDIT2: Maybe this is just yet another case of an unfortunate design of your test map. This vanilla bug might be taking place there.

uhbooh said:

It's possible to do that with an advanced source port such as eternity or zdoom. In vanilla, however, you're forced to use the ExMy format in D1 and MAPxy in D2.

That episodic format also allows 36 levels rather than Doom 2's 32. Boss levels are another exclusive to D1's format.

Porting D2 weapons/monsters/items to D1 seems more trouble than it's worth. I've played many a Doom 2 WAD where there's an episode selection screen (brutal doom's starter pack comes to mind) but I'm not sure if they ended the game whenever you completed an episode.

scifista42 said:

Maybe this is just yet another case of an unfortunate design of your test map. This vanilla bug might be taking place there.

Yep that was it! Thanks for your help, I was never aware of these obscure engine bugs.

EDIT:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/uktuo71t8cwkmk1/d2ind1.wad
This the finished patch, it's included in the WAD. Sounds and graphics aren't included for legal reasons.

uhbooh said:

This the finished patch, it's included in the WAD.

Which makes it unusable in vanilla, since vanilla doesn't read DEHACKED patches within wads, in fact they need to be applied onto a copy of the vanilla executable through Dehacked.exe. Chocolate Doom loads DEHACKED patches externally via -deh parameter, which also requires the patches to stand as separate files, they will end up ignored when only being inside the wad. I'm trying to say that you could have made things more convenient by including the DEHACKED patch both in the wad and as a separate file within the zip.

Anyway, the wad seems to be playable in Chocolate Doom with these parameters:

chocolate-doom -iwad doom.wad -file doom2.wad d2ind1.wad -deh d2ind1.deh

Where d2ind1.deh stands for the exported DEHACKED patch. Vanilla should work the same, except that the -deh parameter can be omitted and the patch needs to be applied onto the Doom executable via Dehacked.exe to create a properly modified executable to play the wad.

The game displays Doom2's TITLEPIC and MDOOM and skies and makes Doom-only textures crash the game upon startup of a map due to a lack of TEXTURE1/TEXTURE2/PNAMES that would fix it, but otherwise works as Doom 1 and I believe it has a potential for good usage as intended, even with Doom 2 textures becoming potentially available since Doom 2 is loaded as a PWAD, of course with appropriate TEXTURE1/TEXTURE2/PNAMES in the main PWAD.

scifista42 said:

Which makes it unusable in vanilla, since vanilla doesn't read DEHACKED patches within wads, in fact they need to be applied onto a copy of the vanilla executable through Dehacked.exe. Chocolate Doom loads DEHACKED patches externally via -deh parameter, which also requires the patches to stand as separate files, they will end up ignored when only being inside the wad.

Chocolate Doom has a parameter called -dehlump that loads dehacked patches that are in a WAD file.

chocolate-doom -iwad doom.wad -file doom2.wad d2ind1.wad -dehlump d2ind1.wad

I'm trying to say that you could have made things more convenient by including the DEHACKED patch both in the wad and as a separate file within the zip.

Here's a ZIP file with the patch both inside of and separated from the wad.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3b3804lu7b9t5o3/d2ind1.zip

The game displays Doom2's TITLEPIC and MDOOM and skies and makes Doom-only textures crash the game upon startup of a map due to a lack of TEXTURE1/TEXTURE2/PNAMES that would fix it, but otherwise works as Doom 1 and I believe it has a potential for good usage as intended, even with Doom 2 textures becoming potentially available since Doom 2 is loaded as a PWAD, of course with appropriate TEXTURE1/TEXTURE2/PNAMES in the main PWAD.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/7vudbh91b0wwg4l/textures.wad
I made something like that last year, but for D2. It has all of the removed D1 textures, with the WFALL patches as a bonus. It should work with D1 if you add the missing D2 patches and the 4th sky.

uhbooh said:

It should work with D1 if you add the missing D2 patches

This shouldn't be needed as long as both Doom.wad and Doom2.wad are loaded before the TEXTURE1/PNAMES wad, regardless of which one is the IWAD and which one is PWAD. Your "textures.wad" actually absolutely needlessly puts the D1 patches in (for its current purpose of being used with Doom IWAD + Doom2 PWAD, that is), but D2 patches aren't required to be included either! But it also omits definition of SKY4 indeed, which it should have included (again, for its current purpose).

EDIT: Your "textures.wad" TEXTURE1 doesn't seem to include all D1-specific textures anyway, for example STARTAN1 is missing, and also AASTINKY, which manages to crash the game too. But with those (and SKY4) included, everything should be fine, without having to reinclude a single actual graphic patch.

scifista42 said:

This shouldn't be needed as long as both Doom.wad and Doom2.wad are loaded before the TEXTURE1/PNAMES wad, regardless of which one is the IWAD and which one is PWAD. Your "textures.wad" actually absolutely needlessly puts the D1 patches in (for its current purpose of being used with Doom IWAD + Doom2 PWAD, that is), but D2 patches aren't required to be included either! But it also omits definition of SKY4 indeed, which it should have included (again, for its current purpose).

EDIT: Your "textures.wad" TEXTURE1 doesn't seem to include all D1-specific textures anyway, for example STARTAN1 is missing, and also AASTINKY, which manages to crash the game too. But with those (and SKY4) included, everything should be fine, without having to reinclude a single actual graphic patch.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/1jsxun1drzh4j44/textures.zip
Heres a ZIP with 2 files, texture1.wad for D1 and texture2.wad for D2. I removed all of the patches except WFALL1-4.

"Texture1.wad" works all alright with all of Doom 1 maps and your DEHACKED loaded. Also thanks for compiling these TEXTURE1s, those might be useful. Is there any difference between "texture1.wad" and "texture2.wad" barring skies?

scifista42 said:

"Texture1.wad" works all alright with all of Doom 1 maps and your DEHACKED loaded. Also thanks for compiling these TEXTURE1s, those might be useful. Is there any difference between "texture1.wad" and "texture2.wad" barring skies?

The only difference is the skies. There's also something forgot to mention, my WAD fixes errors in SW1DIRT and the first games SKY1. Later today i'll release an updated version with a properly organized PNAMES lump.

Why putting any work to "properly organized PNAMES", whatever it means, when everything already works perfectly for all practical purposes?

I guess there's no point in posting my version given that it ended up being almost identical, although it has the SSG replace the BFG, and I have GZDoomBuilder configs if anybody wants them (although I chose slightly different thing numbers).

Another thing I'd planned to do was make it easier for people playing ZDoom ports to install by including a copy of the Doom 1 textures copied from GreyGhost's Ultimate Doom Textures For Doom II wad (which I can no longer find on idgames?) and a DECORATE and MAPINFO lump, to get rid of the issues with the SSG and also make it so that doom2 can be used as the iwad without loading doom1.

Well anyway I'm happy to provide if anybody wants it.

I actually did this the drawn out, totally inefficient way a few years ago.. Copied all the Doom1 textures into a Doom2 PWAD and copied all the maps themselves into the same PWAD. I was suddenly "playing Doom1 in Doom2", however the skies don't change at the right maps, the episode format is gone (naturally) and the music lumps all have to be manually renamed, all this on top of the fact that there isn't enough room for all of E4. Just posting this here so anyone who asks "why not just do it in Doom2" can get their answer.

scifista42 said:

Why putting any work to "properly organized PNAMES", whatever it means, when everything already works perfectly for all practical purposes?

It's hard to explain, it just feels better having the patches in the right order. Also, I found that i'm still missing a few textures. The new version will be up later tonight or tomorrow morning.

Well at the risk of stepping on uhbooh's toes I'll post my version anyway because more alternatives never hurts (hilariously I named it exactly the same thing when I first named it over a year ago, but d2ind1 is probably the most descriptive name anyway).

Here we go

This version swaps the BFG for the SSG, and allows you to load it in ZDoom by just choosing D2 as the pwad, although pr-Boom+ and chocolate will require a command line similar to the one posted earlier. Contains GZDoomBuilder configs for Boom map format with the changed thing numbers. I'd advise using doom2 and the template wad as resources in Doom Builder and not including Doom, as it contains those extra textures so that it works in the easy install way for ZDoom, and you avoid duplicate texture entries in the editor.

The template file has no maps, so dropping it into ZDoom with Doom 2 as the iwad will fall over if you try to actually play a level.

EDIT: Hilariously there s a bug with the DECORATE in getting the SSG replacement to work. Pfft. Let me fix this tomorrow.

EDIT2: Actually it was a simple fix and uploaded a new version. You end up with 2 SSGs if you idfa cheat, but whatever. Not bothered about fixing issues that only arise if you cheat.

I think the Doom textures for Doom2 you are referring to is SargeBaldy's

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/graphics/d1gfxd2

I don't think GreyGhost's update was ever on the archives but here is the link from:

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1186720

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3de3jdukbhsnbdw/UDgfxD2.zip

An yes that's the one thanks :) The text file being in the style of the idgames template file made me think GreyGhost's fix had been on idgames at some point.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/1jsxun1drzh4j44/textures.zip

I'm sorry this took so long, i was very busy today. Anyways, this is the finished version of my textures wad. I fixed BROVINE and LITE96, added MIDVINE2, and reordered the PNAMES lump. I'll upload it to /idgames later tonight.

So in case I would like to create a Doom 1 pwad, which uses the SSG and IoS, I could use your d2in21.wad... but I need also to add the Doom 2 iwad.

If I don't want to have need of the doom 2 iwad, can I alternatively load in the pwad all the sprites that are missing, from Doom 2 (but in this case I cannot distribute the wad) or from Freedoom Phase 2?

You can't have SSG in Doom 1 without using an advanced port like ZDoom, and if you already choose your wad to be ZDoom-only, you don't need this DEHACKED patch at all in the first place, because all the DEHACKED patch does is changing Spawn IDs to trick the vanilla engine that Doom 2 monsters aren't really Doom 2 monsters, so that it allows to spawn them in Doom 1, but ZDoom allows this without such tricks as long as the sprites are provided.

And if you don't want to load Doom 2 with it, you need to provide graphics (sprites, possibly also patches for textures) with the respective names from elsewhere, and load them either as another resource wad or put them to your wad.

Well, I'm not interested in using zdoom. I just asked if it is possible to have D2 monsters in Vanilla/ Chocolate Doom 1 with deh hack and adding the correct sprites.

Monsters yes, Icon of Sin yes, monster spawners yes, SSG no, Megasphere no.