Is there anything interesting about rise of the triad?

I own rise of the triad (the new one) and I hate it. I'm wondering if there is anything I can learn from it in aspects of game design. Have any of you played through the whole thing? Does it get any better after the third mission? Thanks in advanced.

What parts do you hate? There's a lot that's different from the original game.

I really don't like the enemies now that I think about it, they're all the same for the most part and they're boring I find. They're all hit scan, kinda mindless drones that jusy kinda run at you most of the time going "pap pap pap" The level design isn't horrible but is starting to feel quit repetitive. Guns are ok, I think it's mostly just the combat that irks me, I get bored with the game very quickly. Do the levels and enemies get more interesting later on?

It's very old-school, it's also not very well optimized because they used the UDK to build the game instead of using the actual UE3 source so it'll never be perfect performance-wise. I mostly enjoyed it, but it lacks polish and it keeps virtually everything that was objectionable about the original game. Makes me wish they would of branched out and made it more its own thing.

Flawed games often offer better insight than good games, because instead of being left wondering what makes the formula work in a good game, here you can see how it all went wrong.

Hitscan enemies + basic IA + large open rooms makes for boring shoot them dead before they shoot you gameplay. The touted fast movement speed hardly comes into play as fights start at long range, where enemies are little more than pixels. Thanks to a dull art direction pursuing "realistic" graphics, there's little contrast to spot said enemies from the environment. There's no ammo management, no weaponry to speak of as rocket launcher replaces rocket launcher.

Each of these elements wouldn't be so bad on its own, but all combined it makes for a frustrating turd of a game.

I've played a little longer than you, think I finished episode 1 and got halfway through episode 2, and I can tell you at least to that point it doesn't get better. Every fight is the same, every level plays the same. Traps and environmental changes can be mildly entertaining but ultimately it's brought down by the complete lack of flow to the level design, the lack of hints making you endlessly wander until you find the right trigger, sometimes forcing you to backtrack through a linear area, the list goes on.

This is a game built by people who think the core Doom-like gameplay loop is "move forward, pick weapons, dodge traps, shoot enemies, find key(s), open locked door(s)", with no realisation a checklist-like inclusion of those items is not proper implementation. A solid reminder "what" isn't nearly as important as "why", in game design.

Thanks Phml, This is a very good reply and I feel you describe the gameplay perfectly. zi will go ahead and uninstall.

EDIT:
Please delete reply.

I thought he meant the one from 95' and I have no knowledge for the remake :P

Soundtrack is godly for sure, one of my favorite VGM OSTs from 2013 besides DmC.

ROTT'13 is sort of my guilty pleasure. This game is a complete trainwreck both in terms of design and execution... but I still enjoyed it. It's got some cute things here and there, some nice looking levels. Also tons of questionable or downright terrible design decisions. I mean, the game has weapon reloading even though you have infinite ammo for bullet weapons - almost as if they had planned to have limited ammo or maybe the animators went ahead of themselves... yet they have still left it in because why not. :)

It does have the best dual pistol reload animation ever, though.

The original ROTT, while novel, doesn't have a whole lot going for it in terms of enemy variation, level design and general aesthetic. Probably not a surprise the new one is a bit lackluster, although I played the multiplayer at QuakeCon 2012 when it was in pre-release, and thought it was pretty fun.

While I like to check out the new Rise of the Triad as I'm a huge fan of the game, I do hear a lot of mixed opinions about it, even from fans. From what I know, it utilises the Unreal engine, the redesigns of the characters look kinda neat, and had a lot of humorous bits here and there, not to mention the remixes of the original game's soundtrack. The bad points is that there's no save feature, only checkpoints, lot of instant death traps, your characters talk a lot, and they sometimes quip cheesy and lame one-liners, tricky platforming sections, and rather flawed execution. Even so, I might give it a shot just to see what the fuss is about, all I can tell is that the developers did try to give it the oldschool vibe, though I can't guarantee that I will enjoy it. Bottom line, stick with the original 1995 version. May not have a diverse enemy selection as other games of its time and uses a modified yet outdated engine, but it is far more satisfying and appealing in terms of gameplay and presentation.

Didn't they patch a quicksave in? I'm pretty sure they did. One liners are terrible but you can mute the voices. I've actually never had problems with platforming, you just have to get used to it. People always complain about platforming in shooters.

The problem with ROTT'13 is that it's faithful to the source material... which isn't fantastic to begin with. So all the problems of the original game remain, though they did fix the Monks by reducing their health. Levels are also kind of fixed because they're no longer weird labirynths made out of blocks. Weapons are a highlight and they're actually pretty fun. I think the only disappointment is the Flamewall because it doesn't instantly kill enemies like in ROTT'95. But the freaking Firebomb is epic.

But yeah, objectively it's a trainwreck. You will either enjoy it for some weird reason or hate it with passion.

Rise of the Triad, i didn't enjoy it very much as i did with Wolf3D, mostly because while the levels in WF3D were mostly mazes, at least i wouldn't get lost in them as much as i did in Rott.
So yeah, the 13' remake isn't any better.
But still it has a good soundtrack.

The quicksave isn't the most reliable, you can't save on moving platforms, sometimes the area you save in and try to load from will crash the game for some reason, and it deducts from your score at the end of the level. Checkpoint only saving is the devil incarnate I swear.

The voices are pretty annoying for the player characters but a downside is that if you mute them they turn off the enemy's voices as well, resulting in enemies that are strangely quiet. The sound mixing in this game is also one of the worst I've heard, as I have to turn the music all the way up in order to hear it, turn the sound down to half, and the voices at a similar volume, maybe higher, so that the enemies are still audible among all the explosions and music.

Platforming is also not the best feeling, it's easy to overshoot your jumps and the game feels float-y so it's 50/50.

Despite the monks' health was reduced they made the deathfire monks incredibly annoying with seeking fireballs that continue to damage you after you're struck.

Lastly, for what the enemy diversity lacked in the original they made up for interesting and unique behavior, akin to Duke3D's alien bastards before Duke3D came to be. Enemies that steal your missile weapons, surrender, feign death, dodge roll your missile weapons, wrapped you up in a net, threw grenades etc.

But I agree, most of the enemies just wield pistols and are dumb as nails, combat's piss-poor compared to other shooters. The spectacle is pretty much the over-the-top weapons, gore, weirdness and lack of seriousness, and the somewhat charming personality that set ROTT apart from other FPSes at the time.

J.B.R said:

Rise of the Triad, i didn't enjoy it very much as i did with Wolf3D, mostly because while the levels in WF3D were mostly mazes, at least i wouldn't get lost in them as much as i did in Rott.

How strange, I never got lost in RotT since it has an automap feature. I mean, sure, you can't move around while in automap mode like in Doom and Duke Nukem 3D, but you'd at least have some bearing on where you are. Wolf 3D on the other hand, you can easily get lost unless you have a good photographic memory or got a printed layout of all the maps as a guide.

it seems like it'd be a more fun game if you played the multiplayer. ROTT never struck me as a very entertaining single-player experience, but the crazy tone worked perfectly for deathmatch and whatnot.

Rise of the Triad 94's best assets were its texture aesthetics (in part due to its Blood-like palette, which emphasized reds and yellows and greys) and especially its music. Its level design is an abomination.

ROTT 13 is fun but it definitely starts losing ground towards the monk levels.

T-Rex said:

Wolf 3D on the other hand, you can easily get lost unless you have a good photographic memory or got a printed layout of all the maps as a guide.

Well, it turns out that the 6th episode of Wolf3D was the one that gave me the most trouble, i was only able to finish it thanks to ECWolf's automap capability, that episode has very confusing maze layouts.
As for the other episodes, i didn't rely that much on the automap and thus was able to complete them without much problems.

Episode 6 is my least favorite episode in the original set, gone is any sentiment of design in favor of gimmicky shapes and weird patterns for most of the episode in a faux attempt at increasing difficulty. But I also don't like episode 3 much because it's too easy considering the end boss is Hitler.

Isn't that Wolf 3D? I don't remember Hitler in any RotT game, though I haven't touched much of the new one.

Yes, Cyanosis was talking about Wolf3D, not RotT. Coincidentally enough, RotT was originally going to be a Wolf3D sequel by id Software, but when they moved on to Doom, the project was cancelled, though Apogee would continue to work on it, and thanks to a dedicated crew assembled by Tom Hall, who was the leader of the project and started RotT after leaving id due to disagreements over the direction of Doom, they did something completely different which is the final result of the 1995 RotT. Even so, traces of its origins as a Wolf3D game remain, the 90 degree walls, the labyrinth-style maps, and that a lot of the enemies resemble Nazi officers.

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a fan recreation of Wolfenstein Part II: Rise of the Triad, the old assets are actually really cool and most were re-used in Wolf mods.

Me neither, I always wondered what the original RotT was going to be like, though I know it will play similar to Wolf3D.

Looking at the 2013 remake of Rise of the Triad, I noticed something funny. Apogee published and distributed the game, yet it's a game that runs under the Unreal engine, made by Epic Games, Apogee's competitor back then.

dethtoll said:

Its level design is an abomination.

Uhg you said it. Despite dozens of attempts to play this game through over the years I always end up getting hopelessly lost in the samey, bland, boring levels.

If only the game allows you move around while using the automap, that's one drawback I can say about the original RotT, especially since some of the maps in Dark War can be confusing and frustrating, unlike in The HUNT Begins. Least the rocking music is one of the many saving graces.

I remember trying the new ROTT and it felt like the player was moving a bit too fast, much faster than Doomguy. It just didn't feel right to me as it felt like I was playing as Sonic. I haven't touched the game since though and my memory could be a bit off by now.

I found the speed to be very jarring, then again I was playing Lorelei Ni who is the fastest character. I got used to it fairly quickly however.

Also the worst map in the original game is E2A5: Rocky Plateau, though it has the most relaxing song in the game (CCCool).

Good gunplay, pacing, and level design in a modern shooter, plus the nostalgia factor.

ROTT '13 has one of the best shotguns I've ever used in an FPS, which is funny considering the original didn't have one.

Cyanosis said:

ROTT '13 has one of the best shotguns I've ever used in an FPS, which is funny considering the original didn't have one.

Then again, Wolf3D didn't have a shotgun either, but I find it awesome to hear how there's a shotgun weapon in the new RotT apart for the pistols, MP40, and missile/magic weapons.