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hardcore_gamer

Destruction for Doom 2

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UPDATE: Ok, so here's the deal. I have decided to turn this into an episodic megawad. The goal is to make 6 episodes containing 5 levels each. Why 5 episodes? Because I have a life outside of Doom and because my interest in the game isn't always consistent. In a way you could almost say that releasing all 5 episodes is more of a stretch goal rather than a full promise. I have always wanted to make my own Doom 2 megawad but never had the time or tried and then lost interest. In the event I lose interest at some point I will still be able to release whatever episodes I have made so I won't have wasted my time making them. In addition, each level will be uploaded individually here on this thread for anyone to playtest so I can get feedback on them. How long will it take me to finish this (if I ever do) I don't know. Perhaps months. Perhaps years. Perhaps never. Hence the episodic format.

All levels will be made in Boom format, though I will probably include a zdoom mapinfo file into the wad at some point. What are your thoughts on that? Is it ok to make this zdoom only just for the sake of having hell skies on every map and so that the levels will appear as episodes on the main menu? Or do people really care about this working in PrBoom? Please let me know what you think. EDIT: Never mind I am sticking with boom format. Will probably still include a mapinfo file anyway though.

The Story: The whole wad takes place in hell. The player is tasked with taking down bases built by the UAC in hell before the outbreak of the original demonic invasion. So the player will be fighting through the traditional tech bases and demonic installations, but always in a hell setting.

I should also point out that while "Destruction" may have been the name of the first level originally it is now the name of the WAD itself instead.

Original post: So I finally got of my lazy ass and made my first Doom 2 map in ages. A nice little map I made in the afternoon. It replaces Map01 and is tech themed. It supports HMP and UV.

Hope you enjoy it!

EDIT: First version of level 2: Toxic hell is here. It's pretty much done except that it doesn't have difficulty setting yet (all difficulty are currently the same):



Map and episode list:

Episode I: Here we go again!

Map01: Here we go again!(Done)
Map02: Toxic Hell (no difficulty settings)
Map03: Infestation (no difficulty settings)
Map04:
Map05:

Episode II:

Map06:
Map07:
Map08:
Map09:
Map010:

Episode III

Map11:
Map12:
Map13:
Map14:
Map15:

Episode IV:

Map16:
Map17:
Map18:
Map19:
Map20:

Episode V:

Map21:
Map22:
Map23:
Map24:
Map25:

Episode VI

Map26:
Map27:
Map28:
Map29:
Map30:

Downloads:

Map01:

http://www.filedropper.com/destruction_2

Screens:





Map02:

http://www.filedropper.com/toxichell



Map03:



http://www.filedropper.com/infest

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Screenshots? Also why Filedropper? Don't they have files expire after a while?

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Glaice said:

Screenshots? Also why Filedropper? Don't they have files expire after a while?


Screenshots have been put into the OP. Filedropped is good for the moment. Will upload the level to idgames at some point.

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-- Took me a couple of mins to find the RK because the pillar it's on looks like a random decoration.

-- Almost all of the combat is frontal and door-campy, with the most of the indirect reveals (demon, PE) being underwhelming. There are a bunch of chaingunners that simply decimate their own ranks. There are a couple of pits filled with imps that aren't really logical from a gameplay perspective; they don't pose any threat, and you just tediously pick away at them.

-- Best part was the two-AV setup, but you can just door camp this. This would be better as a locked encounter, with the blue door being one-way open and re-opened via a switch in the AV cubby. Maybe in that case there could be additional rockets in the room.

-- Lots of single-shotgunning non-threatening higher-HP monsters, especially early on when the RL isn't available. The mancubus, arachnotron, and the cacos in the "door hallway" needn't exist. They just waste time. Or if they have to stay, it'd be a lot better with the SSG being available early on.

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rdwpa said:

-- Took me a couple of mins to find the RK because the pillar it's on looks like a random decoration.

-- Almost all of the combat is frontal and door-campy, with the most of the indirect reveals (demon, PE) being underwhelming. There are a bunch of chaingunners that simply decimate their own ranks. There are a couple of pits filled with imps that aren't really logical from a gameplay perspective; they don't pose any threat, and you just tediously pick away at them.

-- Best part was the two-AV setup, but you can just door camp this. This would be better as a locked encounter, with the blue door being one-way open and re-opened via a switch in the AV cubby. Maybe in that case there could be additional rockets in the room.

-- Lots of single-shotgunning non-threatening higher-HP monsters, especially early on when the RL isn't available. The mancubus, arachnotron, and the cacos in the "door hallway" needn't exist. They just waste time. Or if they have to stay, it'd be a lot better with the SSG being available early on.


I have made some considerable changes to the level to take into account your feedback. The SSG has been added, some monsters replaced, and the final fight altered so you can't just leave. I have updated the download link.

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Plays a lot smoother. The only thing you have to do to make it Boom-compatible is change all of the SR doors in the hallway (which need non-zero tags set up) to DR doors (which don't need tags).

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rdwpa said:

Plays a lot smoother. The only thing you have to do to make it Boom-compatible is change all of the SR doors in the hallway (which need non-zero tags set up) to DR doors (which don't need tags).


What are you talking about? The map is already designed in Boom format. I merely playtested it in Zdoom.

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hardcore_gamer said:

What are you talking about? The map is already designed in Boom format. I merely playtested it in Zdoom.


ZDoom allows for a bunch of stuff that are considered errors in less advanced ports. For example, as rdwpa said, the SR doors have no tags. This works just fine in ZDoom, but in PRBoom+, it won't work properly due to the doors not being tagged.

Really, the only way to be absolutely sure your map is Boom-compatible is if you test it in PRBoom+ complevel 9.

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hardcore_gamer said:

What are you talking about? The map is already designed in Boom format. I merely playtested it in Zdoom.


The level is broken in prBoom+ because of the aforementioned doors -- it can't be completed without IDCLIP. Testing in ZDoom often leads to problems like these, since it fixes a lot of oversights that prBoom+ and lower ports don't.

edit: double post :D

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Ah! I see. Well I changed the doors in the hallway and updated the download link. Not sure why DB2 gives you the option of using the SR tag if it doesn't work in boom ports.

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SR does work in Boom, but you need to actually give the linedef and target sector a tag, even if the line is on the target sector like a door. DR/D1 are the only actions where you can leave the tags at 0.

(PrBoom+ does have an option to play maps like this properly but it's still considered an error for Boom compatibility.)

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plums said:

DR/D1 are the only actions where you can leave the tags at 0.


The new door action I used for the doors was DR (fast). That doesn't count? I like fast doors since they allow monsters to attack faster.

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That will be fine because it is a DR action. DR stands for Door Repeatable and does not require a tag and has to be on the door itself, while SR means Switch Repeatable and requires a tag but doesn't have to be on the door itself. Whether or not it is fast doesn't matter. GR is activated by a gun (shooting it), and WR is activated by walking over it. If there is a 1 instead of an R (D1, S1, G1, or W1), it can only be activated once.

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Empyre said:

That will be fine because it is a DR action. DR stands for Door Repeatable and does not require a tag and has to be on the door itself, while SR means Switch Repeatable and requires a tag but doesn't have to be on the door itself. Whether or not it is fast doesn't matter. GR is activated by a gun (shooting it), and WR is activated by walking over it. If there is a 1 instead of an R (D1, S1, G1, or W1), it can only be activated once.


That's nice to hear. Anyway I feel this discussion about door tags has derailed the thread. What do people think about the actual map?

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But I like to talk about doors

A threshold, brink; the verge of something greater. Or another door, yay! So if there's a mystery box within a mystery box, is that a good thing?

Spoiler

FDA 6:20 or something like that; wound up dying at the end, though not for good reason. Ironically nothing hit me after I opened the blue door, but those damn damaging floors sure did! 20% on 2 spots mandatory to cross right at the exit with no health around; nice touch there.

This map was really easy; I actually wasn't going to go with an FDA at first, but after loading it up I figured I had a couple minutes to screw around and maybe give it a solid go. The one thing I didn't like about the difficulty of this map was that every encounter felt so trivial, up until the end. Not gonna lie; I don't think the SSG was a good way to start the map. I think if you must go for a power weapon, go for the RL simply for the risk factor in the close quarters that this map has and scrap most of the shells in favor for rockets so people have to use that beauty of a device more often. On the flip side, let's take that first manc encounter before the red key: I can see where rdwpa is coming from with that being tedious with a regular shotty, that's pretty clear. So you buff the player's damage output, but now it's trivial. How about locking the player in there for a sec? Forced tight quarters with a manc can be pretty fun and if it ain't tight enough, make it lock the player in closer. Regular shotty against a manc in those types of forced-CQB scenarios get interesting because of the pain chances and how the timing of them can affect the mancs firing habits at times when a player might not have yet "reset" their position. Same with the imps by the red key; I mean, thank God I wasn't locked in and all because I wasn't even monitoring my ammo after seeing 4 boxes of shells at the start; I had to go back and get some more. But put some ammo down there to deal with the imps and get rid of the lift. It's really not necessary for anything in this map because the areas are small and the other exit is literally more convenient.

Take the other side of the map (btw I liked the HK by the start of the map on one side and the rev on the other side, with the HK being just a bit sneaky, those were nice); the cacos and zombiemen were not a bad combo for the outside, if just a bit underwhelming, but the imps in the room following that were really not much more than ammo sponges. The chaingunners made no sense there on my first run, but on another I guess I didn't run forward (alerting them) and actually forgot about them, and they surprised me with a few lead presents after I killed the imps and thought the room was clear, so I guess they weren't that bad, but the army of imps could have been something more threatening or there could have been some added pressure from behind to spice things up. After that the PE there was one of those, "why is this here?" moments; even in the FDA he and his skulls didn't touch me and I was surprised to see him. That's not a testament to any supposed skill I may or may not have, but more-so proof that he needs some friends. Like 5 more of 'em from all different angles with a rocket launcher and a bunch of rockets around arranged in the shape of a middle finger (exaggeration, of course, though I would have actually found that more fun than the one PE ;D ).

The HK reveal with the RL behind the green armor was another "why is this here?" moments. Seriously, after opening with a rev in a tighter hallway with doors that you forget close behind you suddenly... closing behind you, one HK was a serious let down. Why not like 4 or 5 revs to come out of that closet looking slightly less agitated and perhaps a bit more content. It still might not be too difficult, but it'd feel a bit more right.

At the blue key, I think the chaingunners shot me when I couldn't see them, those tricky devils, heh. That room was nice, though, for the monsters.

The final area, as I said, did not damage me in the FDA... at least from the monsters. The imps and mancs weren't a bad way to enter the room, though the one manc had that right angle in the FDA to make entering the room a bit dodgy for me, though in hindsight I should have gone back for health around the level which would have made me feel a bit more ballsy entering the room. What killed me in the final room was the nukeage while avoiding the AV's, though in the FDA I got 'em to come out one at a time. My second run I fought 'em all together and my third I exploited it, just because. The fight was definitely the most fun when they all came out, but given the lack of health in the area it was only possible for me to do starting at a high health with the green armor. It's just a bit shitty when you have to skip over the nukeage and at any point it can damage you like 13% and there's no health around. Add that to the difficulty spike of the final fight and it just doesn't make sense. Not that I think the fight was too difficult, just that compared to what the entire rest of the map builds up to; it's a surprise. A forced rad suit earlier in the level might make things interesting to force players to play under the pressure of the rad suit timer so that they can avoid damage from the nukeage that late in the map. I really think that the nukeage in this map should be lowered to 10% as well.

I liked the fact that you locked the player in for that last fight and put the exit-unlock switches behind the AV's, forcing the player to deal with at least the two of them and one of the barons.

The visuals of this map were pretty bland, but I don't mind that from time to time as just something to run through and kill things with a God complex. Couple visual things:

I did not like the look of the radiation obelisks/circle-towers/whatever at the end of the level. At least measure them out so they tile correctly, or just put in a border texture to split things up horizontally. Vertically, well, I just wasn't digging the vertical tiling of that sign there, but that could have also been due to the combination of that and the horizontal tiling of it, though it would be an easy fix to make it not vertically tile, too.

There is a small place visible in the FDA with a little texture bleeding going on; I didn't notice it in the FDA but I see now that if I would have turned around and looked up omg it's much worse, haha. Nah, it's no big deal, prolly either you did some copy+pasting there or this is one of those things that can be screwed up when you switch formats. "Make Sector" on that imp closet by the red key and perhaps a couple of the nearby sectors and it'll be fixed.

That's about all I can think of/remember. Hope it helps!

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Here's a casual playthrough. It's possible to metagame the last room if you know where the triggers are.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/kj2yjiz2kbaldqb/destruction_rdwpa_pt.lmp

Fonze said:

I can see where rdwpa is coming from with that being tedious with a regular shotty, that's pretty clear. So you buff the player's damage output, but now it's trivial.


It was trivial with the SG too; it just took twice as long. :P

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Fonze said:

snip


I lol'd when you got killed by the slime Xd :D

I'm not sure why you call the map too easy when you got very close to death a number of times during your demo playthrough. I guess it's just a matter or taste. Thanks for your feedback just the same though.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I lol'd when you got killed by the slime Xd :D

I'm not sure why you call the map too easy when you got very close to death a number of times during your demo playthrough. I guess it's just a matter or taste. Thanks for your feedback just the same though.


Heh.

Yeah they got me below 25% once (because I was mostly fucking around, not paying attention to health or ammo, plus I had the mindset that this would be mind-numbingly easy from the random fucktons of ammo at the start, though for a second there I thought it'd have a bit more of a kick to it when I fought the first rev). But let me ask you a question here, if I can consistently beat a rev up close, flawlessly, then how difficult do you think this map really was for me? Yeah I got a bit surprised a couple times in the FDA, when I didn't know what to expect, but many maps kill me once for each and every good-quality encounter. Indeed, that's one of my gauges of a good fight, though I suppose the perfect fight would be that I just barely scrape through on the first attempt, panic and all. As I said, that was an FDA I didn't even plan on finishing, but I finished the map twice after that and those playthroughs involved little damage. Also note that the nukage in the FDA cost me over 50% (20 + [13or14 x 3] - 4or5)hp (4 times for 80% damage total), throughout the FDA.

You can tell trivial when you play it and you can tell too easy when you play it. Look at the areas I took a lot of damage, messing with the wall of imps, careless about ammo, before the red key I ran up to a chiangunner and promptly ran out of ammo, costing me a lot of health, the chaingunners by the blue key cost me health; I don't really remember any other parts that got me good in the FDA, but as I said I was fucking off. With different expectations comes different decisions and when expectations are "oh this is gonna be easy," I'm not going to worry about small bits of damage and will typically play stupider at higher healths because having low health and all pickups used makes things more interesting, especially when you are in the middle of viewing something as way too easy. I went through most of the encounters before so I won't do it again, but if you go and re-read what I wrote, it'll prolly help your "thing placement."

That's not to say it was bad, though I do object to the PE's use in this level, and if you want to make your maps easy that's not a bad thing, those were just my observations.

rdwpa said:

Here's a casual playthrough. It's possible to metagame the last room if you know where the triggers are.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/kj2yjiz2kbaldqb/destruction_rdwpa_pt.lmp

It was trivial with the SG too; it just took twice as long. :P


Lmfao, you know I had that say "trivial and tedious" as I was typing it, but deleted "trivial" because I used it right after in the same sentence to describe the gameplay with the SSG and it just didn't sound halfway intelligent to say it was trivial (and ...) and now it's just trivial. But yes, you're correct; it would have been trivial to use primarily the SG in the map's current form.

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Thanks for your reply. I might make some very minor tweaks to the map. You might be interested to know however that I have been working on a sequel map over the weekend and it's 90% done. I am wondering if I should create a new thread for it or just post it on this one instead since this thread isn't so old. Would be cool if you were willing to playtest that map as well. It's somewhat tougher than the last one.

I am thinking about making a trilogy mapset so perhaps it just makes sense that the first one isn't so hard?

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You're welcome man and sure, I'll playtest the next one.

I'd say for the thread, if you plan on making it all part of the same project then you might as well update the OP in this thread and bump it when you put out the next map, though people have made new threads for less of a reason before, so it's whatever you want to do.

A trilogy isn't a bad way to go, but if you're looking for feedback single maps released over time would prolly net you the most. Perhaps at the end you can decide to update and combine them all before upload to /idgames, but for the presentation of it single maps seem to be the way to go.

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Ok, so here's the deal. I have decided to turn this into an episodic megawad. The goal is to make 6 episodes containing 5 levels each. Why 5 episodes? Because I have a life outside of Doom and because my interest in the game isn't always consistent. In a way you could almost say that releasing all 5 episodes is more of a stretch goal rather than a full promise. I have always wanted to make my own Doom 2 megawad but never had the time or tried and then lost interest. In the event I lose interest at some point I will still be able to release whatever episodes I have made so I won't have wasted my time making them. In addition, each level will be uploaded individually here on this thread for anyone to playtest so I can get feedback on them. How long will it take me to finish this (if I ever do) I don't know. Perhaps months. Perhaps years. Perhaps never. Hence the episodic format.

The Story: The whole wad takes place in hell. The player is tasked with taking down bases built by the UAC in hell before the outbreak of the original demonic invasion. So the player will be fighting through the traditional tech bases and demonic installations, but always in a hell setting.

I should also point out that while "Destruction" may have been the name of the first level originally it is now the name of the WAD itself instead.

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Map03 is done other than difficulty levels. It's called infestation and is has an infested tech base theme. OP has been updated with a screenshot and download link.

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