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CheeseOnTheMoon

Shotty vs SSG

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Does anybody else prefer the standard shotgun to the ssg? I never really ended up using it, except for hell knights/barons and occasionally. I guess I just got really used to the feel of the default shotgun in doom and couldn't really adapt in doom II. I always felt like I was wasting ammo.

I'm trying to use it more in the new doom, and maybe I'll get a better feel for it when I go back.

Does anybody else feel this way?

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Doom 2 - Super shotty
Doom 64 - Super Shotty
Doom 3 - Supper Shotty
Doom 4 - Combat Shotty

In the old games the SSG felt more impactful than the normal shotgun but in Doom 4 the roles seem to have switched. So satisfying continuously firing that thing with that cool sound

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Plenty of threads on the topic. The gist of it is (at least for me) that both have their uses.

SSG: close quarters and slaughtermaps against big, fat targets, and of course deathmatch.
SG: when you need tighter spreads over longer distances. Ever tried to snipe revenants or imps/zombies on a ledge with the shotty from more than a hundred units away? Yup, not fun, esp. when only one every 20 pellets hits, and ammo is at a premium.

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Maes said:

SG: when you need tighter spreads over longer distances. Ever tried to snipe revenants or imps/zombies on a ledge with the shotty from more than a hundred units away? Yup, not fun, esp. when only one every 20 pellets hits, and ammo is at a premium.


Good point, I guess I got used to sniping with the shotty. So far I'm having a great deal of fun in doom 4, I started a new doom II playthrough and I'm starting to use it more.

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Now that I think about it, other than the greater horizontal spread, the SSG also has a vertical spread that makes it quite bad at "sniping" or even just plain hitting opponents with a height difference: many of the pellets will simply end up on the walls above/below your target, while with the shotty, if you get the horizontal positioning right, almost all pellets will hit, rather than uselessly puffing on the walls. This also makes it much more useful for shooting through windows, narrow slits, bars etc.

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I like the single-barreled shotgun more because it has a cool sound and a higher rate of fire. The SSG IMO is boring as hell and I will use it if I don't have a choice.

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I was like you, then watching UV-Max demos and playing multiplayer made me use the SSG more than ever before.

Sometimes I am too lazy to switch to the SG so I just close in and put all the dakka on the remaining stragglers. When I am on a difficult level and feel like I am about to die, I switch to the SSG because it relaxes me. Also, sometimes I shoot on nothing in particular to hear its beautiful sound.

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Using SSG against a lone zombie\imp feels weird, like slicing a watermelon with an axe or something. So even if the map is extremely generous with ammo, sometimes I will still switch back to the shotgun. And if ammo is rather limited, of course I will do it more often (e.g. baron survived 5 SSG shots -> try to finish him off with one shotgun shot).

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SSG for sure. Too many fun things to do with it. Point-blank combat against mid-tiers, shooting at low-tiers while micro-herding them into clusters. The SG has use for sure, but if you have the both the SG and SSG and are reasonably skilled at SSG usage, you will nearly always save ammo by using it primarily, switching to the SG only for certain spot applications.

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Iwad wise I rarely bother using the shotgun. Only for shotgun\chaingun zombies and the darn Caco sliding away slowly. Otherwise all it does is prolong fights unnecessarily leading to more hp lost. Not to mention the SSG deals more damage for 2 shells than the sg at close range, which is a very large amount of the Iwads.

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I rarely use the Shotgun if I can help it, I tend to use SSG upclose and the chaingun for distance enemies, or possibly the rocket launcher if it's a tougher enemy.

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Depends, if ammo is scarce, i'll use SG more often, saving SSG for Barons and Hell Knights since they are tough to kill, Cacos, not so much, they'll go down in 2 shots if all pellets connect, although if i'm playing with a mod that has reloading, then i'll empty all the SG's shells, then unload the SSG and reload them both after.

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The SG is only really a situational weapon in Doom 2, since the SSG trumps it in every way. In Doom 1 it was much more viable, considering the large amount of fodder enemies (i.e. zombiemen and imps.) Group of zombiemen: chaingun. Group of imps: SG.

Also I use the SG in Doom 2 if shells are in low supply.

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J.B.R said:

Depends, if ammo is scarce, i'll use SG more often, saving SSG for Barons and Hell Knights since they are tough to kill, Cacos, not so much, they'll go down in 2 shots if all pellets connect, although if i'm playing with a mod that has reloading, then i'll empty all the SG's shells, then unload the SSG and reload them both after.


If the SG will save ammo chance is enemies are placed apart so you can't ssg a pack in oneshot. Might as well run past them unless looking for 100% kills.

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One very handy niche use for the shotgun's higher rate of fire is vs arachnotrons in tight quarters. The arachnotron's high painchance will keep it from getting off more than one shot at a time which is much easier to dodge when elbow room is at a premium.

It's also good for sniping zombies like Maes mentioned. Try closing the gap with a sniping chaingunner vs your SSG and tell me how well that works.

On the other hand, the sg has a severe disadvantage vs revenants, since they retaliate immediately after being attacked. If you're a masochist like myself that just means you're having more fun, heh.

A comment about people trying to conserve ammo: the SSG fires 20 pellet's for 2 shells compared to 7 for the shotgun. It's more economic (and fun) to use the SSG, but that reload delay can still get you killed sometimes.

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The shotgun is my least used weapon once I get the super shotgun, and yes, I use the melee weapons more. There's just something about the super shotgun that makes me use it the most. Nearly triple the power of the shotgun with two shells, and the loud sound it makes feels satisfying because fits its power. There's a fun risk factor about carefully placing a good shot with it due to its slow fire rate. Need to kill a target from afar? I tap-fire the chaingun, and even some monsters like the arachnotron have large hitboxes so most of the pellets from the super shotgun still land on them.

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I use SSG in close range to deal with enemies that are decently tough (Mancubuses, Barons of Hell, Archviles) and shotty for sniping inmps or when I just feel like using shotgun will be fun.

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Something I've noticed about revs and the regular shotty: if you time the first shot just right and hold the button thereafter, you can stunlock them while they constantly try to retaliate. Of course there are its uses with arachnotrons as well, as previously mentioned, but I've been liking regular shotty fights with revs more lately. Of course that's really only the type of thing you'd notice in wads like TNT's Shipping/Respawning where it's just one rev vs you and your shotgun, but in my over a hundred of runs on WormHell while testing, starting off with a shotty vs rev as a tribute to that map, I began to see a pattern.

Stay tuned for 5 revs and a shotty (24 rounds) in a large room with no cover ;D

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I switch depending on the occasion, I like to individually snipe imps and humans with shotgun, then switch to SSG when Demons approaching, or even bigger enemies. I always map my keys in such a way that I can switch fast between them. I cringe when I see videos of people playing Doom, when they acquire SSG just walk around with this and wasting ammo on a single human or imp (while when there are many of them close together, maybe it's fine). It's like they think, ok the SSG is far better weapon so I'll use this one from now on, regardless the case.

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Optimus said:

I switch depending on the occasion, I like to individually snipe imps and humans with shotgun, then switch to SSG when Demons approaching, or even bigger enemies. I always map my keys in such a way that I can switch fast between them. I cringe when I see videos of people playing Doom, when they acquire SSG just walk around with this and wasting ammo on a single human or imp (while when there are many of them close together, maybe it's fine). It's like they think, ok the SSG is far better weapon so I'll use this one from now on, regardless the case.


To be fair, switching weapons in Doom is pretty damn slow, not to mention there's a decent chance an Imp won't die form a single SG blast, or even worse a Chaingunner at close range. I mostly use the SSG and switch to the Chaingun for longer ranges or mowing down groups of former humans. The Chaingun is much better than the SG at all ranges, so unless I'm out of bullets, which rarely happens, I won't be using the regular Shotgun. It's kind of like using the Plasma Rifle when you have the BFG. It has its uses but is quite niche. Plus all the UV-max runs I've seen by good players have them rarely using the SG over other weapons.

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One thing I learned from Doom 4 is how scenario specific particular weapons and mods are. The SSG can become an extremely brutal weapon against Pinkies for example. Maximize its mods and challenges and you can double shoot it before a reload. As a result, every time I see a Revenant or Pinkie I absolutely destroy them in seconds.

When you face Cacodemons, triple shot the rocket launcher + an additional shot can get them in stagger state. As for the shielded zombies, use the plasma stun shot behind them or use the charged shot in Gauss Cannon to eliminate them quickly. Also a well placed grenade or combat shotgun explosive shot behind them can kill or expose them for a clear shot. Up close, the Combat Shotgun is my favorite weapon to take out groups of Imps and Possessed Soldiers quickly meanwhile I prefer the tactical scoped rifle in long distances, especially when its damage is maximized.

All very situational. Even the upgraded pistol serves me well, killing Imps in one shot, saving ammo etc. The one weapon I use the least is in fact the Chaingun, despite it having some powerful mods. Which is funny since classic Doom it's a must use weapon.

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Health is more important than ammo. Chaingun guys and lost souls need to die. You cant mess around with that.

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I'm new to Doom & the modding community (for all intents and purposes--dicked around a lot with iddqd when I was 7 or so, skipping around various maps), and I gotta say, threads like this are always interesting to read, on top of just being helpful.

Myself, I never really considered the utility of the SG once you get the SSG. I've mostly been using the latter, probably because it's so damn fun to shoot, but I switch to the SG when I come across just one or two zombies/imps. Gonna start using it more often though, at medium distances the tighter spread probably makes for much cleaner encounters.

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40oz said:

Health is more important than ammo. Chaingun guys and lost souls need to die. You cant mess around with that.



I agree on lost souls, but with chaingun guys if you're close up the sg will kill either kill them in 1 shot or stun them anyways.

There is a small chance that neither will happen, so I guess if you really want to be safe you should use the ssg, I rarely do though.

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Keep Doom 4 stuff to the respective board please.

Marcaek said:

On the other hand, the sg has a severe disadvantage vs revenants, since they retaliate immediately after being attacked.

What does this mean and how is it different from SSG in this aspect?

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kuchitsu said:

Keep Doom 4 stuff to the respective board please.
What does this mean and how is it different from SSG in this aspect?


Well, it's one thing having to deal with one -at most two- retaliations, and another with up to four. Interestingly, there's a non-zero chance of downing a rev with exactly three shotgun shots, but the chance of that happening is about 1/262144, unless you're TASing and "riding" the RNG.

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CheeseOnTheMoon said:

I agree on lost souls, but with chaingun guys if you're close up the sg will kill either kill them in 1 shot or stun them anyways.

There is a small chance that neither will happen, so I guess if you really want to be safe you should use the ssg, I rarely do though.


Depending on how big the room is, I'd consider Chaingunners to be far more of an immediate threat because at least Lost Souls can be dodged. They're just like projectiles.

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Peckles said:

Gonna start using it more often though, at medium distances the tighter spread probably makes for much cleaner encounters.

There's not set rules as it depends on different situational factors, but if I have bullets and a chaingun, I use this instead of the shotgun as you can be more accurate by tap firing. I'd rather keep my shells to deal maximum damage when I am close to a big bag of meat.

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Also SSG is slower, so having to deal with many lost souls with SSG will have to avoid more in the meanwhile, while single shotgun can cancel their attack for a while. But anyway, I'd end up using chaingun with those.

And yes chaingunners need one or two simple shotgun, I don't usually count ammo there, I like to kill them with SSG, it's only zombie/shotgunners and imps I prefer to take with simple shotgun.

p.s. And yes, upgrading SSG in Doom 4, suddenly I replay levels and can bring down revenants and hell knights with ease, while before I had to run and use the Gauss gun or many Rocket blasts. Suddenly SSG with double firing and fast reloading is powerful as long as you still have ammo.

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MetroidJunkie said:

Depending on how big the room is, I'd consider Chaingunners to be far more of an immediate threat because at least Lost Souls can be dodged. They're just like projectiles.


Chaingunners are definitely a bigger threat, but they also have a much larger chance to splatter in 1 hit as opposed to lost souls. And when range comes into play, both shotguns are usually outclassed.

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