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Hyp3rion

4 player limit for Doom SnapMaps??

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So I recently sunk 10 hours or so over a few nights into making my first map for the new Doom using SnapMap. I'm really happy with how it turned out, at least that was until I learned about the 4 player limitation for maps created under SnapMap!

My gameplay design was based on classic TDM sniper maps and after designing and making the actual map, figured 8v8 would be the optimal max amount of players to duke it out to a winning score of 50 kills or maybe 100 dependant on seeing how fast the round would be finished on reaching 50. So the map is a huge room with teams spawning on either side with the centre of the room blocking players from crossing over, leading to the ranged sniper gameplay. I also added an additional alternative gameplay element to the map where you could perform a one off (per map round) 2 player infiltration to the enemy team's side.

I put a lot of thought and effort into making this additional gameplay something pretty interesting from a team score bonus perspective to mix the gameplay up a bit more from the basic sniper gameplay. Basically if you managed to survive the process in reaching the infiltration teleporter then a max 2 players would be allowed through, picking up a megahealth each and one getting quad damage to wreak havok on the enemy who are still being sniped at from the rest of your team on the other side.

Upon looking into publishing my map I noticed the team settings screen only showed 4 player options. I initially just put this down to being able to set the number of teams and minimum number of players and thought no more on it except that maybe I also needed to set the amount of allowed players for the map somewhere in the map itself by a placed module. After looking further into the matter via internet searches on how to set your amount of players I finally came across the information that 4 players is the limit. Seriously, what the hell!!?

With the player limitation on my map, this means your WHOLE team of 2 can teleport into the enemies side, making it a standard 2v2 TDM until they get killed and respawn on their respective side OR if they can't be killed then it remains a normal TDM until the round ends as the original scenario was meant to be 8 enemy players vs the 2 infiltrators so that it was only a limited opportunity to get some extra easy kills to boost your team's score before you were overwhelmed and spawned back on your side to play out the remainder of the round (as only 1 infiltration is allowed per team, per round). This limitation simply cripples the deeper gameplay I've already made into my map, let alone the 2v2 sniper gameplay is going to be pretty darn dull!

I really wonder why this limitation is in place and why it isn't made clear to you the second you go to make a new map for the first time. I've essentially at this point wasted a whole heap of time I could have spent elsewhere as currently the map is pretty much useless. Even if it was 4v4 it would be better but still pretty dull for a competitive TDM map!

Bethesda / id, do you have an answer? Essentially SnapMap is only useful for creating co-op missions as 4 players is not nearly enough even for even a standard competitive FFA / death match map that is larger that one big room...it doesn't even make sense in that you can configure the map for 4 teams when publishing it which would result in 4 one player teams and therefore are not actually teams?

You've made this great tool for easily making maps for all gamemodes yet it is only really useful for one of them (co-op missions) when you get down to it, I really hope this 4 player limitation will not stay in place for long...otherwise SnapMap is pretty much pointless for my means and the potential multiplayer future of the game.

- Hyp3rion

Map name: >> SNIPER WARS V1 <<
Map code: T5365CX4

TL:DR - Spent a heap of time making a big and involved map for 8v8 gameplay before learning about the 4 player max for SnapMaps! What the hell Bethesda??

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You think that's bad? Just wait 'till you start trying to design singleplayer maps only to run into limitation after limitation.

Real fun trying to work around the two-weapon limit and the fact that only 12 monsters can exist across the entire map at any given time...

And that's just scratching the surface.

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They decided to limit max prefabs and monsters just to keep perfomance better on consoles :S, That sucks, Or maybe to force players to buy DLCs (which will definitely contain maps better than the ones SnapMap can make) .

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Chubz, that sucks even more...why are consoles holding a PC game back, it's ludicrous!

DMGUYDZ64 - well Bethesda can go jump if they think I'm going to spend more money on DLC. Simply not interested unless they are complete expansions to the SP campaign as well.

These limitations are essentially dissuading me from even being interested in making any more maps and I'm certainly not going to spend more money than I have already on the main game where my main interest is at. For their MP to flourish and continue to survive they need far more than what SnapMap currently offers. They've pretty much shot themselves in the foot as current matters stand.

- Hyp3rion

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julz_d said:

So this is because of consoles? Can you confirm this?


Well I can't confirm it but a lot of people are coming to the same conclusion and it makes sense as I believe snapmaps made on any platform can be accessed and played on any of the other platforms, so they have to keep them at a base performance level usable by all platforms which is set by the lowest common denominator - the consoles.

- Hyp3rion

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Hyp3rion said:

Well I can't confirm it but a lot of people are coming to the same conclusion and it makes sense as I believe snapmaps made on any platform can be accessed and played on any of the other platforms, so they have to keep them at a base performance level usable by all platforms which is set by the lowest common denominator - the consoles.

- Hyp3rion

I have the game on console. it already does 16 players on multi. I don't see this is a valid argument without some documentation. We're not talking about a Nintendo Wii U ps3 or 360.

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I don't know then, maybe it's simply for MP DLC reasons as someone else speculated. I own an xb1 myself and am in no way trying to bash consoles, just figure out why they've implemented this ridiculous 4 player limit.

- Hyp3rion

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Multiplayer allows for 16 players.

SnapMap allows for 4 players + 12 demons.

I don't know if snapmap uses a peer-to-peer or client-sever network but it doesn't matter.
Each player and demon has to send a similar amount of data to update its position, and likely uses a similar amount of resources on the hardware.
Since we can assume demons and players use a similar amount of network/resources the cap makes sense.

However, we should at least be given the option to disable monsters completely and use all those resources for more players.

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Jadwick said:

Multiplayer allows for 16 players.

SnapMap allows for 4 players + 12 demons.

I don't know if snapmap uses a peer-to-peer or client-sever network but it doesn't matter.

Each player and demon has to send a similar amount of data to update its position, and likely uses a similar amount of resources on the hardware.
Since we can assume demons and players use a similar amount of network/resources the cap makes sense.


If that is indeed the case, then the below should also be the case! It would allow my map to have a purpose again...

Jadwick said:

However, we should at least be given the option to disable monsters completely and use all those resources for more players.


- Hyp3rion

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Yeah I don't understand why they put team maps in there anyway I mean like CTF. Who plays CTF with that kind of four players max. I'm sorry you put all that effort into that map and then have to deal with this. When I used to make classic maps mine were usually for like 8 to 16 players myself. Another thing is why can't they have in game joining and why can't they have at least a server browser. I see we all have a lot of questions but there just seem to be no real answers when it comes to snap map which is a damn shame. At the very least they could put bots in to test dm maps. It's just fucked up but they're missing all this basic stuff that pretty much any AAA title should have I generally have no explanation but it's really disappointing.

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So I've published the map anyway (see below for details), thought I might as well after going to the effort of making it. If you guys wouldn't mind checking it out and also for testing team spawning and scoring mechanics that would be great as I'm not sure if it's set up correctly even though I did copy the team deathmatch template for it's module logic.

I'm also not sure if you'll automatically be prompted to select your loadout before spawning. If not, good luck getting through the back room infiltration challenge with a shotgun & sniper rifle each :P (oh, a railgun will also spawn along with a megahealth below the main sniping room in the "RING OF DOOM" after 60 seconds of the match starting)

Map name: >> SNIPER WARS V1 <<
Map code: T5365CX4

- Hyp3rion

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