Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

Well, TNT has some new music and utilized the voodoo doll to good effect in Map 30, it's similar to the Golden Gun on the Egyptian level of Goldeneye 64 only more lethal.

MetroidJunkie said:

Well, TNT has some new music and utilized the voodoo doll to good effect in Map 30, it's similar to the Golden Gun on the Egyptian level of Goldeneye 64 only more lethal.

Don't forget those spider webs from TNT!

I'd say my overall most "controversial" opinion is my less-then-mediocre experiences with the last half of Doom 64. I have only played Absolution to give it one last benefit of the doubt, but those pitfalls and awkward instant-death puzzles *I'm looking at you Burnt-offerings.* Totally killed any fun I may had have earlier.

I loved those homing rockets in that map. Made up a little for the revenant missing.

I don't know if it's controversial but maps that monsters already see you when you spawn piss me off. Ahem, cough *Spawning Vats* cough

TheNerdTurtle2 said:

I don't know if it's controversial but maps that monsters already see you when you spawn piss me off. Ahem, cough *Spawning Vats* cough

Or that chaingunner that's right behind you at the start of map 10 of Plutonia, Onslaught. Not cool.

I like active starts, but those maps that start you off with a shotgunner with his back facing you are irritating. There's a low-ish chance it even manages to avoid being painstunned or survive long enough to get a shot off, but it's always annoying when it happens. I once played a map that started the player off in like a 384x384 room and the sergeant immediately shot back after being hit by the first bullet, doing almost full damage. Pretty silly design.

I don't mind active starts too much but the "Swift Death" style ones where you die in seconds unless you've got the map routed really grind my gonads.

Speaking of encounters, I think pure archvile vulture setups* in slaughtermaps need to take a short break. Probably because I've seen it so much, it feels kind of uncreative to me. Better to use a slightly more complex archvile-centric encounter that could be considered a creative fight on its own. I guess there's nothing wrong in principle with rencontres a faire (the Doom equivalent of scenes a faire, yes I looked up the translation of "encounter" for that, lolwhatanerdIam) -- every fight can't be ultra creative -- but the more common such encounters should be avoided when they become old hat, at least without some kind of interesting twist. (Another example: the single archvile in the exit room.)


*For the uninitiated: vulture archviles are those that are sent in on the heels of a corpseriffic fight, where their ability to revive corpses is leveraged as both a threat and a stabilizer (i.e., x number of AVs might be a big much in a certain area, given the amount of cover available, if they were all focused on attacking the player, but the corpses slow them down). A pure AV vulture setup sends in only archviles.

rdwpa said:

(Another example: the single archvile in the exit room.)

I remember playing some decently challenging map and had my BFG out before the exit door when I saw that there was one monster left. Opening the door revealed a single zombieman, whom I blasted with the BFG anyways because switching weapons is so damn slow!

rdwpa said:

I think pure archvile vulture setups* in slaughtermaps need to take a short break.

I've felt this way for awhile. Seems obligatory that long hard stuffs traditionally end with either a fat stack of AVs or a bunch of cybs, sometimes both. A lot of players expect a marquee "final" fight that feels climactic, and those enemies are usually the most straightforward way of making one. Feels played out, of course, but it works. Custom enemies can be nice in final encounters, but they tend to put a surprising amount of players off, it seems.

My favorite equivalent of AV vultures is former human trooper spam. Main fight softens you up, now contend with death by a thousand derpy papercuts. (I used this a tiny bit in "Ovum's" RK fight. I think the last wave was ten or so troopers. They are actually a serious threat if you finish that fight with <30% HP or something, especially if the turrets and a few ground monsters are still around.)

I guess this isn't so surprising given that I made this map:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/hcnq0knu5np47js/twad.wad

http://i.imgur.com/Wgat4d7.png

http://i.imgur.com/gXYKqFm.png

Why not do both? Have a bunch of zombies on raised or distant areas that are difficult or impossible for monsters to leave, then after a fight pull an Archvile into there somehow so that the derpy papercuts recommence.

Using an archvile defeats the purpose of trying not to use an archvile.

I don't like the enemy design choices in doom 3. I wish they stood true to the original monster designs.

DekuMemer said:

I don't like the enemy design choices in doom 3. I wish they stood true to the original monster designs.

He said Controversial haha, in this forum it's pretty much accepted that Doom 3 didn't make the cut (of course I know there are fanboys and I'm not hating)

Alright, some feller said "Doom is one of the most balanced first person shooters IMO" in another thread and I feel like venting about that balance.

Let's start with the weapons.
-The Chainsaw is pretty darn weak and not worth using on anything but Demons and Imps. Even then, it's just a crappy melee Chaingun in terms of DPS and bullets are so damn common outside of gimmick maps that it's just not worth it.
-The Pistol is utter trash.
-The Shotgun is outclassed by the SSG at close range and the Chaingun at every other range. It's only good for killing low HP dudes and Imps and the Chaingun is better for that too.
-The Plasma Rifle does less DPS than the Rocket Launcher on single targets. This blew my damn mind when I looked it up. The RL also has the advantage of being a good fire and forget weapon where you can shoot 1-5 rockets at a monster and expect it to die. And once you get the BFG you just stop using it altogether because it's much more efficient.
-The tracer mechanics on the BFG are stupidly obscure and lack any visual indication. They should have either ditched the ball and made it a Plasma SSG or made the ball more explosive and effective.
-The Berserk is alright but exists mostly for shits and giggles and gimmick maps. Better off shooting shit.

The monsters.
-The Chaingunner does way too much DPS. Why is he the most consistently damaging enemy in the game besides the Mastermind?
-The only good/interesting projectile monsters are the Manc, Revenant, Arachno and Cyber. Everything else is slow and trivial to dodge versions of Imps.
-The Lost Soul has too much HP but that's preaching to the choir.

Alright I'm done.

TheNerdTurtle2 said:

He said Controversial haha, in this forum it's pretty much accepted that Doom 3 didn't make the cut (of course I know there are fanboys and I'm not hating)

oh sorry im kinda new to the doom community

rileymartin said:

-The Lost Soul has too much HP but that's preaching to the choir.

THIS! God I just replayed Doom and those things take like 4 shells or 20 or so clips! Like FUCKK

2 shells or 10-12 clips if you aim well and RNG doesn't give you extremely unlucky numbers.

scifista42 said:

2 shells or 10-12 clips if you aim well and RNG doesn't give you extremely unlucky numbers.

You know, your a real pain in the ass haha I'm just kidding thanks for the info scifista I can always count on you to know the answer :) It seems like they're so much stronger than they are just because they don't bleed and seem to eat ammo in numbers

I like Dis and the Fortress of Mystery. No clue how controversial that is but those are the two maps the most people talk shit on that I like.

Dis was appropriate for a flat map, but I wish there were more ways to avoid becoming a sponge.

Fortress of mystery on the other hand, seemed a bit lazy for a non boss level.
The other secret levels had great/good detail, and then there was that map.

I preferred Fortress of Mystery compared to Warrens. To me the design was just lazy(lazier).

TheNerdTurtle2 said:

You know, your a real pain in the ass haha I'm just kidding thanks for the info scifista I can always count on you to know the answer :) It seems like they're so much stronger than they are just because they don't bleed and seem to eat ammo in numbers

But, like pinkbeasts and invisibeasts, they come to you; and unlike pinkbeasts and invisibeasts, their charge is stopped by a single close-range blast. Better yet, they get caught on each other. They're terrible shotgun targets at range, but let them come to you and it is two blasts each - or get somewhere close and mug them with the berserk fist.

Speaking of Fortress of Mystery I once tried to re-texture it to match the GBA version which seemed to have a better texturing job done than the original version of the map. Somehow I actually liked that it was the last map of GBA Doom and that was my first version of original Doom.

I think Pain Elementals are adorable. Annoying in-game for sure, but come on, you can't tell me that wide-eyed meatball isn't the cutest little hellspawn. All it wants to do is give birth to its innumerable skull babies.

DekuMemer said:

I don't like the enemy design choices in doom 3. I wish they stood true to the original monster designs.

if doom 3 was more like the classics everyone would have said "uh, just a copy of the classics" it just wasn't the right time for a reboot like doom 2016

soulweeper said:

I think Pain Elementals are adorable.

I think they look really stupid when they stay glued to the ground (don't or can't fly up) and crawl straight towards you while shaking their hands and looking at you with that enormous eye that never blinks.

rdwpa said:

Spoiler

Speaking of encounters, I think pure archvile vulture setups* in slaughtermaps need to take a short break. Probably because I've seen it so much, it feels kind of uncreative to me. Better to use a slightly more complex archvile-centric encounter that could be considered a creative fight on its own. I guess there's nothing wrong in principle with rencontres a faire (the Doom equivalent of scenes a faire, yes I looked up the translation of "encounter" for that, lolwhatanerdIam) -- every fight can't be ultra creative -- but the more common such encounters should be avoided when they become old hat, at least without some kind of interesting twist. (Another example: the single archvile in the exit room.)


*For the uninitiated: vulture archviles are those that are sent in on the heels of a corpseriffic fight, where their ability to revive corpses is leveraged as both a threat and a stabilizer (i.e., x number of AVs might be a big much in a certain area, given the amount of cover available, if they were all focused on attacking the player, but the corpses slow them down). A pure AV vulture setup sends in only archviles.

id love to see more archvile encounters like the one in Sunlust (forget the map) where theres the rotating, undulating orange screen and the teleporting imps/HKs