Is there a way of selftesting coop maps?

I have been searching here and there and I have not found anything... or I am a bad searcher, haha... Anyway, is there a way -not involving 3 more players, of course- to test your coop maps? Cause I am now organizing Kaoss maps to be prepared for coop-multiplayer and... well, I do not know if I am doing it right or terrible wrong... Thanks in advance for the info and/or tips. :D

I would use bots to test whether the map works properly in Coop, such as Zcajun.

http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/ports/?platform=8

The bots are generally too stupid to do actual playtesting of a map.

I guess with two simultaneous clients open. The very least you can test for situations where e.g. a second player risks getting locked out or runs out of ammo.

Try progressing up to a point with one player only, park him into a safe spot, then take control of the second player and see how much ammo, pickups, monsters etc. are left, or if he ends up locked out portions of a level (never a cool thing to happen).

Aha, I understand, ok... Testing with bots it's an idea, but... well, I do not know if they are "smart enough", haha...

Also, to get a player lockup in a room while others are out is not a good thing of course. I am checking that too (just calculating and in theory).

Ammo is a problem... but IF I tag some ammo and some weapons as *multiplater* (I mean JUST multiplayer) I assume that they are JUST displayed in multiplayer/coop, is that right?

And also enemies tagged as *multiplayer*, JUST multiplayer they will only appear playing coop/multiplayer, am I right?

For example, ammo for single player, SSG and a shotgun shells, knowing you will have 3 more players I can add 3 more SSG marked as *multiplayer* and 5 (or 6) more shotgun shells marked as multiplayer also. So, we have now 4 SSG and 5 shotgun shells, (maybe a player will have less ammo, maybe...)

Also, one doubt... is there a respawn of ammo and weapons or... is it an option in some portals or is a standard? Thanks for your advices. :D

If you're using prboom-plus.exe, you can run it from the command line with the command "-solo-net" That will run a single player game with multiplayer settings on, so all things flagged "multiplayer" will appear. Also whenever you die you can respawn at the player 1 start and continue playing the level without losing your progress, as default cooperative settings are.

Here are some tips with coop maps

As a rule of thumb, make sure doors that shut behind the player are able to be opened from the outside. If the only way to get the door open is to operate a switch on the inside, a player can potentially die in there, respawn at the start and none of the players can continue with the map.

Make sure doors that require keys stay open. Keys can be picked up an infinite number of times but its a lot of wasted time and not fun if the players have to keep returning to the key to open the same door, if they die many times afterwards.

If your map has chaingunners and shotgun guys, make sure there are shotgun and chaingun pickups too. Weapons that are placed on the floor can be picked up an infinite amount of times (but only once per player life) but shotguns and chainguns dropped by chaingunners or shotgun guys may only be picked up once and dissappear. If your level is designed in such a way that your first shotgun is acquired by a fallen shotgun guy, that shotgun will dissappear forever if other players take it. Shotguns and chainguns placed on the map will not.

Berserk powerups can only be used once. If one player gets it and dies with it, that powerup is gone forever. So it's good advice to keep other weapons available and in reach from the start area if your map depends on this powerup as a weapon very much.

In vanilla coop, when players die they lose their keys, their weapons, and all their ammunition. Weapons placed on the map stay, but ammunition does not. If a player takes all the ammunition on the map and dies carrying it, that ammunition is gone forever. Place lots of extra ammunition and space it out in alcoves, dead ends and secret areas and out of the way of foot traffic so it's not all used up too early.

Most players are used to playing Doom on single player so trying to avoid fire balls can be tricky in small rooms if they are all in the room together. Having multiple paths to the same goals is usually a good idea and making sure there is plenty space to spread out when the players need to makes for a good map.

Multiple players can kill monsters faster but aren't necessarily more adept at staing alive. It's easy to run into fireballs that weren't aimed at you, or to shoot your teammates accidentally. So when adding cooperative monsters, use bigger hordes and/or thicker monsters like hell knights, hell barons, or mancubi instead of adding harder monsters like archviles and chaingunners.

40oz said:

If you're using prboom-plus.exe, you can run it from the command line with the command "-solo-net" That will run a single player game with multiplayer settings on, so all things flagged "multiplayer" will appear. Also whenever you die you can respawn at the player 1 start and continue playing the level without losing your progress, as default cooperative settings are.

You can accomplish the same thing in Zandronum by typing multiplayer in the console, or by adding +multiplayer to the command line.

I'm not sure if I am understanding this question correctly. What exactly are you trying to test? How it plays co-op (i.e. adequate items, difficulty etc) or just that the thing types you have added for co-op are all working? Can you please clarify and maybe others can give you more specific advice.

If you are running the match in Doomseeker you could always choose the "respawn items" option in the flags tab. I'm sure other server browsers have the same sort of option.

You do not lose keys on death in co-op UNLESS you have selected the "lose keys" option when hosting the game.

After testing maps (4 of them) with prboom.plus -solo-net, I have come to realize those maps were NOT designed for being coop/multiplayer: narrow corridors, low doors in tiny rooms, etc. I cannot imagine 4 players playing in those areas... :(

So, after all that work (I even fixed MAP01, widen corridors, created new corners, new secret areas...anyway)... those 10 maps are not fun for coop... very bad, hope next time I get into an adventure like this one (building 10 maps, hahahaha) I will be MUCH more careful with those things. Well, at least, they are 10 maps single payer mode. :/ (Not happy)

Thank you all for your tips and info, and...everything. :/

CuckooCannonball said:

I'm not sure if I am understanding this question correctly. What exactly are you trying to test? How it plays co-op (i.e. adequate items, difficulty etc) or just that the thing types you have added for co-op are all working? Can you please clarify and maybe others can give you more specific advice.

If you are running the match in Doomseeker you could always choose the "respawn items" option in the flags tab. I'm sure other server browsers have the same sort of option.

You do not lose keys on death in co-op UNLESS you have selected the "lose keys" option when hosting the game.

zandronum coop isn't vanilla coop m8

Ijon Tichy said:

zandronum coop isn't vanilla coop m8

:P My bad. Didn't see it mentioned anywhere that this was a vanilla project /:|

For clarification, unless stated otherwise I always answer editing questions with the assumption that the person asking the question is designing their map for standard Doom or Doom 2 format. Source ports are great and all but they should be regarded as an enhancement for regular vanilla Doom, not a replacement.

Be aware of what works and doesn't work in vanilla. Knowing that information will never hurt you and can make your maps cross compatible across source ports making them more accessible to your players.

Oops, maybe my bad, I should have explained -clearly- I was talking about vanilla maps, that Kaoss is a project thought for vanilla... I thought... well... I am sorry.

Nowadays, with so many ports and options, I get lost... and I am very old school. I have no problems creating maps with other portals options, really, but with those Kaoss maps I was trying somehow "back to the bassic".

I know there are tons of options now, and I like them... I remember when Aliens (doom2 mod, I recall) went out, and it was a blast... hahahaha... long time ago. :D

Thank you and sorry for my poor explanations. :D

EDIT: Typo.

Thank you 40oz, that is a good tip. Heretically I tend to only make GZDoom maps myself so just kinda egocentrically assume other folks are doing the same, which I now realise is bass ackwards thinking ;P

No fault on your part at all Kimota, I should have just looked yr maps up before posting instead of right after ;) Great work! I have only played through 3, 7 and 9 so far but I really enjoyed them and many of the design elements are really inventive. I love the cracked stairs on map 9 :D (Gave me a fun idea for a map with a lot of falling floors and earthquake actions and a 3d floor kill-plane, maybe where the player has to fight their way through the map to a switch point and then sprint back to the entrance/exit as the map plunges down into lava behind and around them... :D)

I was a big Get Smart fan went I was younger, and still love Mel brooks. So I whipped up a quick KAOS wall texture based on Siegfried's office in this photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27572079@N03/2971765847

using this version of the logo:

http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/kagents.html

I can upload it somewheres if anyone is interested.

Anyway I have gone off topic enough. Thanks a lot in general guys and Kimota for the cool maps. Really sorry to hear you think they may not be ideal for coop. Map 7 seems like it would be a good deathmatch map!