Risen3D. Max PNG Texture Size?

Hi. I was wondering if someone who knows the ins and outs of the Risen3D port could tell me if there is a maximum pixel size for external .PNG textures?

I am making my own UltraHD Texture Pack with Photoshop, Filter Forge 4, Indesign and (if needed) some scanned acrylic painting work, which would replace the 128px high originals with 2048px high, then I would make a 1024px high lite pack by resizing these textures as a secondary pack for rigs with less RAM.

I am not sure if Risen3D can do textures of this insane resolution or if it would crash even on high end rigs with lots of RAM.

Advice would be appreciated. I have done a few textures and would like to know if to keep going or re-do the ones I have done as 1024px.

Thanking in advance.

Hoover1979. :)

There isn't a resolution limit, but rather a filesize limit. I did some testing with textures at 8192, 4096 and 2048. The higher resolutions throw an error saying it exceeds the max memory size limit (32 MB), but the 2048 x 2048 textures seemed to work just fine.

Keep your textures decently optimized and you shouldn't have any issues. I hope this helps!

Here is a rather detailed explanation from Graham Jackson himself ...

The maximum texture size is ultimately limited by the graphics card. This has nothing to do
with the amount of memory fitted to the card as the limit is imposed by the card's design. If
you look at Risen3D.out you will see that the maximum size for the card is reported under OpenGL information

The port, if necessary, will resize a texture to fit the card's limit but early cards that could not
handle textures of 2048 pixels or above are not really suitable for R3D's graphics and speed
demands. It is true, however, that textures with a width of greater than 2048 may not be
displayed correctly since as yet none have been encountered and are therefore not supported.
They should not crash the engine however. With this width it only allows a height of 4 before
exceeding most card's limits of 8192 so it is not an unreasonable restriction. If a texture is
made having a size of 2048 x 1024 pixels then it would make more sense to first reduce it to
512 x 256 for use with R3D (or any other engine that supports hi-res graphics).

There is also a severe lack of understanding regarding the use of very high res textures, as for
the most part, the graphics card is having to fit them into a very small part of the screen.

A texture will only be drawn without loss if it fits that part of the monitor's screen area that eq-
uates to its size. It is of course possible in only having part of the texture filling the screen when
up close and what size is used is down to exercising discretion. It is pointless to use much of
the card's fast RAM by filling it up with textures when, in the main, they are having to be pared
down to fit the area of the screen being used to display it. So a wall at a distance, for example,
may only be using 5% of the screen's area and with a screen of, say, 1920 x 1200 this would
equate to 115200 pixels or a texture of roughly 340x340. Anything larger would have to be cal-
culated to fit by the graphic card on the fly whilst attempting to produce as few artefacts as
possible (given texture information is being lost). At the same time approaching close to a tex-
ture will mean that that part being displayed has to be expanded to fit the display area so a low
resolution texture would start to look bad - as one may recall in the early days with the blocky
appearance of a texture when up close. From experiment it would seem that replacement hi-
res textures that are employed to replace their original lo-res equivalents are most efficient in
terms of appearance v. trade-off when between 2x to 4x the size depending on the original tex-
ture's size.

The same is true for all hardware accelerated ports, of course.

Current hardware has a limit of either 8192x8192 or 16384x16384 but 4096x4096 is still very common among hardware used by Doomers - some older cards still in use may even be limited to 2048x2048.

Anything less can safely be ignored these days. That hardware would be too old and too weak to handle any modern graphics heavy mod.

Thank you all for your replies. My textures are coming along nicely but will take considerable time to complete all of them.

Here is a photobucket link to one of the textures I just finished. The Hexagonal tiled wall.

//s172.photobucket.com/user/Hoover1979/media/metal1_zpsrm9xa3sm.png.html

Just copy and paste the link to a new browser window.

I am going to take a couple of days break from this retexturing as all the time sitting in front of my rig is making my chronic back pain act up big time. :(

I received an addition email from Graham today which backs up what Graf states.

verbatim ...

a texture of > 8192 pixels has to be reduced in
size before any other considerations if that is the graphic card's limit (and 8192 is a
pretty common limit). As such creating textures larger than this is a complete waste
of time.

... not to mention that the memory footprint of such a huge texture is 64 MB (85 MB with mipmaps.) Ten of those and many graphics cards are at their memory limit, if screen buffers and other overhead is factored in.

I am not planning on making textures that have a height greater than 2048. I will also try not to have widths greater than 8192. Hopefully that will not be a problem but I can not properly test this until I have made many more textures. I will be making a "Lite version" of the texture pack with textures half the size of the 2k ones so if the UltraHD textures are too much, even for a modern system that I will upload the 1k ones and keep the 2k ones for a later time when the higher detail textures would no longer be an issue. My current system does not have an issue with 2k textures on the Half-Life 2 cinematic mod though, which is a promising sign.

I have gotten a few textures done and made a page on my Deviantart account.

I thought I'd share the link, in case anyone wants to see what the textures look like

Link is below:

hoover1979.deviantart.com/gallery/59360732/UltraHD-Doom-Texture-work

(Copy and paste this in a new browser window)

I have been working on the texture pack solidly for just over a year now, and have been teaching myself as I go.  I bought Filter Forge 6 pro, and this has assisted me greatly.  I have been pushing through chronic back pain, but won't give up and plan on replacing all the textures for Doom, Doom II, Plutonia and Evilution, then get to work on Brightmaps/shinemaps.  Some days I get several textures done in a day, due to most of the work being done in filter forge, with a smaller ammount of manual work in Photoshop, and other textures require so much manual work, through Photoshop it took days, to weeks to finish one texture.   I wish to get my hands on the source photo's of the gargoyles used in the original Doom textures, to get my pack more faithful to the original Doom, so the textures with different gargoyles may change if I can get the source photos, I am seeking.

Here is my latest (1080p@60FPS) test video of my WIP pack from E2M2 with GZDoom 3.1 (64bit), with the ketchup mod and the Doom Metal Music WAD:

I may note that the textures presented in the above video are subject to change.

Here is a link to my Deviantart repository: http://hoover1979.deviantart.com/gallery/59360732/UltraHD-Doom-Texture-work

the textures at the bottom are my earliest work and the ones up the top are my latest work.  Since I started, my skills have been increasing, and I have been remaking older textures as I get better at this.  I still have a ways to go with further developing my skills, so I am leaving the most difficult textures for last, so by the time I get to them I would have the skills and experience to be able to tackle them.  I ahve been getting a positive response overall, and the community has been good to me by critisizing constructively.  I accep[t all constructive critisism, both positive and negative, as it assists me in further developing my skills and making a pack the majoroty of HD doomers will enjoy.

I have released another video the other day of E2M1

Coming along pretty nicely. If only we had some better resources for the characters. :(

Looks cool, Hoover! Nice work.

its hard to get the textures to blend well together with ultra resolution and color. The ceiling textures for example, though apparently have rivets or bolts in them, tend to complement the gray brick textures because they look like bricks in low resolution and share the same shade of gray coloring. The two materials look quite different in higher resolution.

That always seems to me to be the biggest challenge with making high resolution anything. How can these things look good together when the only reason they looked good together in the first place is because they were obfuscated by lower resolutions?

I could look into that.  If I can locate the original stone surface I made to make the brick texture I could try mucking around with that to see what happens if it is a stone ceiling texture, with or even without the metal rivets, to see if they blend better, or look worse (or maybe take out the slight blue tint from the existing texture via saturation removal, to see if that makes it a match for the grey bricks?).  I am also going to redo the green stone ceiling as now, after testing and comparing with the original textures I find it too bright, so I will tone it down a bit. 

I am in the middle of an epic texture that I've sunk over 10 hours into and probably have not reached the half way mark.  The Burning city Sky for Doom II: Hell on Earth.  As I am self teaching, my skill are improving, which means I need to revisit older textures and remake them for consistency.  I am remaking the sky textures, and have all 4 Doom 1 skies redone and the first Doom 2 sky redone.  This burning city sky is a tough one, but when it is done it will be epic.  it is already in it's unfinished state far better than I ever expeced it to look.

Please keep the suggestions/concerns coming as it will allow me to better shape this pack for the benefit of all.

Here is a sneak peek of the Doom 2 sky as it is coming along.  I still need to get the other layers of buildings in and apply the smoke/fire effects before I get the Depth of Field in and make sure it tiles.  I hope to get this one finished in the next week, so I can look into the other texture issues, and make some more sky textures.

I decided to do two versions of the Burning City sky, one Day Time version and one Night Time version.

Day Time Sky:

Original Image Size: 4096x2048

Night Time Sky:

Original Image Size: 4096x2048

EDIT: I added reflections on the water of the harbor.

I couldn't control myself and redid those ceiling textures.  The one seen in the beginning of the E2M1 video and the fersion of that same texture with a light.

Here is a screenshot.  Please let me know what you all think. 

Does it blend better with the Stone Brick wall?

Does it look more out of place, with the metal rivets, which I can still remove without redoing the texture again?

Original Image: 1920x1080

it looks much better, and that burning city sky is beautiful!

I can't wait to get the burning city sky finished.  To add the front layers of buildings and get the fire and smok as well done as the rear layer would be a dream.  One of the foreground layers will be used to ensure the sky tiles, by hiding the seam of the background city layer.  This trick worked well with the mountain skies, and I am sure I can get it working with the city one.

I'm glad you like it so far.

Ok I finally got both Day and Night versions of the Burning Cuty Sky for Doom II finished after weeks of blood, sweat and tears.

Day Sky

Original Size: 4096x2048

Night Sky

Original Size: 4096x2048

Here's a Gothic Book Shelf, Wall and Wall with Wolf Portrait

Original Size: 1024x2048

Original Size: 1024x2048

Original Size: 1024x2048

Here is a screenshot from Doom II - Map 12 (The Factory), with some of my latest textures at play.

Note: Textures are subject to change before release,

Original Image: 1920x1080

<snip>

That sky looks really nice, would be phenomenal if they were animated.

I wish it could be animated too.  It would reqire a lot more work, but the payoff would be tremendous, it's a shame that Doom only lets a small portion of it's textures be animated.  Other walls I did like the tech walls would also be much better if they ware animated too.

That or the animated one being smaller, say 1024x512.

Here is my latest video.  MAP01: Congo from "Final Doom: The Plutonia Experiment".

Enjoy.

I have just uploaded my 1st tech demo of my Work In Progress UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom on ModDB

In around 24-48 hours from the time of this comment it will be live for download here:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/hoover1979-ultrahd-doom-texture-pack

Once it goes live for download I will make a new thread about the texture pack and link the ModDB page there.