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Blastfrog

Why all the hate for The Chasm?

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Personally, it's one of my favorite levels due to how much verticality it has and its platforming elements.

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I personally don't have a problem with this level, but

Unf said:

its platforming elements.

That's what most people dislike about this map. Very narrow ledges and a lot of platforming.

Also, there always has to be a scapegoat level..

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It's one of the only levels that uses the player's movement against them. Maybe It was too much for some keyboarders, and the hurt never went away.

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I don't think it's the worst level (that honor belongs to Nirvana) but for me the texture choices are just shocking, with so many areas looking garish or hyper abstract (the sfall room). It has a strange sense of progression, with the non-linear areas feeling really out of place to me and finally those thin ledges whilst not a problem now were very dickish back in the day and I can't imagine how much worse they would have been with that save bug.

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Having to navigate those really narrow ledges is the deal breaker. Regardless, I dislike Nirvana much more. But that's another cup of tea altogether.

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Rofl, i've beaten The Chasm multiple times, PC and console versions, so it's indifferent to me, besides it's a level that requires careful movement as near the end of level there's the maze-like section where if you fuck up, you're dead.

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Crunchynut44 said:

It has a strange sense of progression, with the non-linear areas feeling really out of place to me and finally those thin ledges whilst not a problem now were very dickish back in the day and I can't imagine how much worse they would have been with that save bug.


Save bug? The save buffer overrun in vanilla? None of the original maps were affected by this issue.

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The issue with The Chasm is the super narrow ledges and Lost Soul/Caco spam which can knock you down into inescapable death pits. Then there's that bizarre slime area and the techbase in the middle that overall makes it feel more like a UAC mining facility rather than a Hell map.

Nirvana isn't even a bad map, just unremarkable. There are worse IWAD levels like Habitat, Metal or E4M4.

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The pathways are way too narrow. Moving fast and dodging projectiles is what makes Doom fun. The Chasm is the complete opposite and punishes you for fast movement while making you vulnerable to enemy attacks. The result is frustration. Constant falling or losing health. Like many levels in Doom II, it feels gimmicky.

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Use3D said:

Save bug? The save buffer overrun in vanilla? None of the original maps were affected by this issue.

If you save too close to a ledge, you'll fall and get stuck in it upon loading the savegame.

rileymartin said:

Then there's that bizarre slime area and the techbase in the middle that overall makes it feel more like a UAC mining facility rather than a Hell map.

These are the greatest parts.

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Tension from the tiny walkways becomes tedious. Poor visuals. Badly executed concept. Lack of any fun what so ever. And an absolute pain in the ass paying from pistol start. Fuck that level.

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I'm very indifferent to it, most of its flaws has been over exaggerated by people IMO, and I'm guilty of this at one point in time. I can name other Doom 2 levels that I despite a lot more than Chasm.

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Da Werecat said:

If you save too close to a ledge, you'll fall and get stuck in it upon loading the savegame.


Oh, I've never heard of that.

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Well, compared to your typical Final Doom level, it's a cakewalk but it can be fairly annoying compared to the other Doom maps. Pistol Start on UV, in particular, is extremely difficult.

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I don't think it's fair to judge IWAD levels based on pistol start play as they were made with continuous in mind. The first game's manual even tells you to save often so you don't end up at the beginning of the level with just a pistol.

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rileymartin said:

made with continuous in mind.

[designers made absolute sure every level was beatable from pistol start]

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I try to find good things in a Doom map, regardless of their infamy, but The Chasm is one of those maps I can't say a good thing about. First off, the map feels out of place in an episode that is set in Hell. Second, there's a lot of narrow ledges and you can easily fall off, especially when you're getting bombarded by cacodemon fireballs or gang-raped by lost souls at inopportune moments. Third, some parts require you to backtrack when you're aiming for 100% completion of the map, making it quite a chore to complete, and the narrow ledges don't help, compounded by the fact that there's virtually death traps everywhere (like in the ending). Fourth, it's extremely unforgiving in pistol start, due to not having sufficient ammo to deal with the enemies and on top of that, some are even guarding the better weapons. Last, but not least, it's an ugly mess of a map. So dull, tedious, and lacklustre. The only saving grace is that it doesn't drag on for an eternity like TNT's Administration Center and Mount Pain (ugh).

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Jaxxoon R said:

[designers made absolute sure every level was beatable from pistol start]


Yes, but "beatable" does not mean that you'll get balanced and enjoyable gameplay starting that way.

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I don't mind most of it, but I have to be extra careful in the room before the exit as I can be pushed off the ledge by a lost soul, and there is no teleporter that could get me back up, meaning if I fall, I must die.

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rileymartin said:

Yes, but "beatable" does not mean that you'll get balanced and enjoyable gameplay starting that way.

But if the developers made absolutely sure that the levels were doable from pistol start, wouldn't that mean there was balancing in the equation?

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I like it, narrow ledges and all.
Is it really that hard (and not fun) to play cautiously?

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Personally I think this level is the essence of Doom. It has all the elements that should be in good classic level. Amazing mix of tech/hell/cave themes, lot of fear during the whole gameplay, clever platform mechanisms, nice lighting and that wtf feeling when you look around that abstract architecture.

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IMO, the catwalks in The Chasm are good (except that the ones in the last room are above an inescapable pit), and pretty much everything else in the map is weak.

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It's awesome and if you're having troubles navigating the catwalks you're probably a noob to be honest. Or you haven't even tried playing it in the last 15 years. It's piss easy.

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