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sparky

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Hello

Im Looking For These 2 Full 32 Level Wads For Doom2: Perdition's Gate And Hell2Pay
If Any one Has These
Please Email Me At Sparky921@rogers.com
These Where Wads That You had To Pay For
But They Are Out Of Print So Im NOT A Warez Thief

Some One keeps Deleting My post
You know Who you Are Speak Up !

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Ok, it has come to my attention that these wads are unofficial level sets and are NOT warez...my bad. I'm sorry Sparky.

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They started out as projects that were to be released commercially, but were never finished. They were eventually finished as Doom3.wad and Doom4.wad, but are not availible on any major FTP. Google searching or something would probably be your best bet.

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really ??

so there free stuff now ??
cant seem to find them on google
any one have um ?


No prob bigbadgangsta :)

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Geez, BBG, make someone out to be an ass, why don'tcha??!?! :P

Just kidding. Carry on.

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Hell2pay is the rarest registered Doom wad by far.
I don't know anyone who has it!
maybe no one.
someone could email Mustaine...

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yaa, i emailed that guy for both of um
but no respons
didnt you do some speed demos on Perdition's Gate ??
if you have the wad
could you send it ?

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Ichor said:

and this for Perdition's Gate?

Isn't that just the first 11 maps of the Perdition's Gate megawad? I thought the full 32-level megawad was a commercial product, so if it were made available for free download, then that would indeed be warez (and BBG is right).

BTW, this Perdition's Gate should not be confused with the excellent 6-level episode of the same name by Alex Mayberry (which I'd love to make some lmps for, but I don't think it's currently downloadable from anywhere).

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yes grazza it is the 32 levels wad im looking for, but its abandonware
which means the company that made is dead
so its ok :)

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sparky said:

yes grazza it is the 32 levels wad im looking for, but its abandonware which means the company that made is dead so its ok :)

That's arguable. It's still subject to copyright protection. "Abandonware" just means that you're willing to gamble on the copyright holder not taking action. Before the company went out of business, they might have sold their rights to a big company with a good and underworked legal department, for instance.

The analogy with printed books isn't clear. If a book goes out of print, then you have greater freedom to make photocopies of it. However, this can't be done (legally) on a large-scale basis.

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Abandonwarez = warez. K? That has always been DW's policy. So therefore, I cannot allow anyone to link to the full version in this thread. Use e-mail and keep it off the forums.

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kain said:

who cares, i say if its still in dos, its abandonware.

"All property is theft, therefore this little beauty is mine" - Zaphod Beeblebrox.

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I am not really sure it is legal to sell DOOM add-ons (without explicit and particular permission from id, that is; I do not know the exact status of the WADs mentioned here though), it seems to imply it isn't in DOOM's license. And if they can sell it, I am not sure the author has any right to punish you for its free distribution.

But I have another more important point to bring up. Many WADs have distribution/use restrictions but do not otherwise request $$ for their possession. It is not uncommon to see people breaking these "copyrights." Like when people use gfx from WADs with a TXT that asks that the stuff not be used, or that request a disclaimer pointing to the original authors, their address or whatever. I do not believe that these requests are inferior to the "$$" ones (actually registered PWADs are usually old stuff with much less merit than many of the free ones). So I do not see why one would worry about the distribution of these "registered" PWADs more than about the abuse of permissions granted with free add-ons. And that is effectively the case. People saying "WAREZ!" when its about money, otherwise being silent.

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myk said:

I am not really sure it is legal to sell DOOM add-ons (without explicit and particular permission from id, that is; I do not know the exact status of the WADs mentioned here though), it seems to imply it isn't in DOOM's license.

That is a matter for id and the add-on's creator to sort out. If they haven't got id's permission (and need it), then it is for id to decide what action to take. In any case, those who buy the add-on will normally have agreed to an EULA and any provisions it makes. If that EULA has been made fraudulently, then of course the customer has every right to complain, to say the least.

myk said:

But I have another more important point to bring up. Many WADs have distribution/use restrictions but do not otherwise request $$ for their possession. It is not uncommon to see people breaking these "copyrights." ...

It is generally most straightforward to sue for breach of copyright when you can demonstrate some loss: you estimate (or over-estimate) the losses suffered as a result, and sue for that amount. That doesn't mean you can't sue for breach of copyright for material for which you weren't charging money - it's just less clear what you might sue for (beyond seeking an injunction to prevent further distribution, and legal costs). As far as I am aware though, it is not considered OK to rip off other people's textures - for instance, the uploading instructions in the archives make it clear that permission should be obtained for any resources used in a wad.

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Grazza, yeah, but my point was that it seems to me that id's latest DOOM license does not allow the selling of "New Creations." And if it may seem to some by how it's phrased that it refers only to those that contain id resources, I'd say not, as it doesn't specify that. Apparently in the last license (DOOM Collector's Edition, appearing as the license agreement when you install it) id finally addressed the status of game addons for DOOM, see point 2, which I quoted fully for another reason in this thread:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9526

Thus without a special grant from id to restrict an addon to distribution by payment it wouldn't be possible to sell such things. And muuch less to threaten someone legally.

Also from a "community perspective" WADs have never been fully accepted as merchandise, but as freely distributable addons, with some standard exceptions to use as noted by the author. And this is probably stronger than some mythic and generic law on private property and what prompted id to finally include this "New Creations" clause.

It is true that Telefragged (and thus webpage/forum mods) may have concerns about these issues, though it is amusing to think someone would fear the 1337 lawyers of some dude out there who decided to make his PWAD a commercial product 5 years ago, who sells nothing of this today, and who probably sold less than a few copies through all the years (add this to all that I say above...)

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I won Perdition's Gate in that co-op speedmapping contest that was held a good while ago.

It's OK. Certainly worse than any of the major megawads (AV, MM...), but OK.

You can get it from me for only $100.

Deal?

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myk said:

Thus without a special grant from id to restrict an addon to distribution by payment it wouldn't be possible to sell such things.

I had it in mind that a commercial add-on would almost certainly need specific agreement from id. Otherwise there would be "passing-off" issues quite apart from copyright ones.

One's stance on abandonware, etc., depends on whether you are interested in what you can get away with, or what is legal/ethical. Personally, I use the latter as my yardstick (I even registered my copy of WinZip). And a website such as DW has every reason to avoid even a whiff of warez.

And of course you're right that writs are very unlikely to start flying between Doom mappers due to textures being used without permission. But who knows: maybe a really zealous law student could get thoroughly pissed off with someone ripping his textures and take revenge ("interesting test case", etc.).

Fredrik: I'll swap my 3.5 inch pewter cyberdemon for it. Maybe.

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And of course you're right that writs are very unlikely to start flying between Doom mappers due to textures being used without permission. But who knows: maybe a really zealous law student could get thoroughly pissed off with someone ripping his textures and take revenge ("interesting test case", etc.).

Remember when Nick Baker released textures based on Ola Björling's? I'm pretty sure Ola would have killed him if he had had a chance :)

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Well yes, fear of being murdered is probably a better reason not to rip other people's textures. :)

Not interested in the cyberdemon?

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Grazza said:
Personally, I use the latter as my yardstick (I even registered my copy of WinZip).


Last time I checked, Winzip could be used free of charge for personal and educational purposes?

Also, a reminder. Asking for, offering, or linking to warez or other illegal stuff is strictly forbidden on these forums. Your account will be deleted if you do.

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Mordeth said:

Last time I checked, Winzip could be used free of charge for personal and educational purposes?


WinZip asks that you register it and pay a fee but that is up to the user.

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Archvile64 said:

They started out as projects that were to be released commercially, but were never finished.

They WERE both commercially released. They were being sold by Wizard Works, but I think they've gone bust now.

They were eventually finished as Doom3.wad and Doom4.wad, but are not availible on any major FTP. Google searching or something would probably be your best bet.

No, this is definitely NOT true. Doom3.wad and doom4.wad are illegal versions that one person released on cdrom.com; the accompanying text files claimed that he and a couple of his friends made the two wads themselves. Doom4.wad even used the music from Memento Mori 2 for some reason. They are NOT the official versions at all.

Myk said:

Apparently in the last license (DOOM Collector's Edition, appearing as the license agreement when you install it) id finally addressed the status of game addons for DOOM

Both these two wads were being sold YEARS before the Collector's Edition came into existence, so quite obviously they used a different version of the Doom license.

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So we have determined that these are indeed commercial wads, therefore, the distribution of them is illegal. this thread is closed. Like I said, use e-mail, keep it private and OFF the forums.

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