Classic levels are poorly balanced

I like the idea of the classic levels but they don't seem to be very well balanced at all. Biggest problem is that the enemy placement is the same as in the classic levels even though the gameplay balance in the new and old Doom is completely different. The pinky for example is much tougher in the new Doom, and cause 90% of my deaths in the classic maps :(

Do you like anything? I swear I've only ever seen you post threads whinging about one thing or another.

Lmao, always whining about something, the pinky's easy to kill, jump above it when it charges at ya, turn around and shoot at it's tail.

The only things that really really bothers me so far with the classic levels is the lack of detail (flashing lights, mixplaced textures) and the fact that the music isn't recorded from an SC-55 and doesn't loop properly.

Some of the secrets are really hard to get to too. Like the E1M1 secret elevator in the shotgun room. You've really got to book it to make it in time and you don't run as fast as in classic. That's not a complaint, I like the player speed in Doom 2016, but it does get in the way a little in these classic maps. Overall I like them.

MusicallyInspired said:

Some of the secrets are really hard to get to too. Like the E1M1 secret elevator in the shotgun room.

Wait do you mean the place where you first get the shotgun? I dont know, I only have the demo right now.

The classic levels sometimes feel imbalance cause it has maps made for enemies/situations that no longer exist. Like the doom II map1 for example, that map can be easily conqured with just the chainsaw back in the original! However with the revisit in the modern doom, the chainsaw has ammo now, and the enemies have much more devastating attacks (such as the soldier's charged shot).

The only map i so far tried is this and the cyberdemon map, and i really enjoy the latter, even without a bfg to nuke the bastard. MAP01 felt, dare i say, unfair, because of the different guns/enemies, that no longer fit strategically as it did before.

Map01 became pretty easy after I learned the possessed soldiers could be repeatedly stunned with melee, then followed up with 2-4 point-blank pistol shots.

Doominator2 said:

Wait do you mean the place where you first get the shotgun? I dont know, I only have the demo right now.

We're talking about the classic maps. The secret elevator in the shotgun room of E1M1 of Doom 1. It's almost impossible to make it because it triggers when you're standing waaaay across the acid pit pathway.

Does the E1M3 RL and Soulsphere secret even work in this port? The trigger lines dont work at all for me and i have no idea how you are supposed to get to it

@Viscra Maelstrom, yes but you must be quite fast.

yeah, they should've at least touched upon the levels even a bit so as to make them not play awkward, adding monsters, increasing base player speed and bullet spread as in snapmap to make up for the faster speed/weapon accuracy classic doomguy had, you name it.

or better yet, they should have reverted the monsters back to their classic counterparts like W:TNO and TOB did, because their resilience in their modern versions really throws off the speed and flow of the maps in general. You can't just throw a couple soldiers and hope it clicks with that classic doom feel gameplay-wise when you have to get closer to them and land 3-5 combat shotgun pellets worth at point-blank, every single time you encounter one.

it just doesn't feel quite there.

The classic levels are absolutely terrible.

- The scale is always off. One time the map is too small, one other time it's too big.
- No shading, no lighting, barely any effect and even the existing effects like elevators act nothing like in the original game.
- Music doesn't loop properly. Missing sounds.
- Like you said poor balance, and poor enemy placement as well.
- Some glitches too, one time I did a glory kill on stairs and I ended up falling through the level.
- Arbitrary choices like invisible walls here but not there; and non accurate secrets.

Out of all the modern FPS that includes "classic style" levels, not a single of them got them right, but the Doom ones are probably the worst. They shouldn't have bothered with it if it's to put so little effort into it.

I thought you guys would be the most bothered by it.

Randomly thrown secret levels, waddya expect, They're not a part of the Main game .

Well, for one people expect them to have the same levels of polish as the rest of the AAA game and not look like something an intern shit in the game at the last minute.

I was pretty bothered by it back when they were first revealed, but I came to accept the fact that they were hideously unpolished and slapdash after it became apparent that they weren't going to bother to make them any better. I fucking hate it when the switches flicker. Hate it, even more the upside-down startan.

At least the classic snippets in the canpaign gives you full grade arrmor no matter what the difficulty level is, and the Cyberdemon and Baron of Hell fights are pretty cool to play.

I know there wasn't much work put into them, but it's kind of nice not to be playing the SAME game. I kind of actually appreciate that having the new enemies makes the whole experience different. It's what I would expect.

The biggest problem are the pinky demon. The fact that it can't be harmed from the front means it's extremely op in the classic levels where you are expected to fight many of them at once even though the original level design assumed that you could simply shoot them in the face. In fact, I would argue that pinky demons in general are OP. I honestly don't like what they did with them in this game and am very thankful that you can turn their armor off in snapmap. In snapmap I just turn their armor off and give them more health instead.

hardcore_gamer said:

The biggest problem are the pinky demon. The fact that it can't be harmed from the front means it's extremely op in the classic levels where you are expected to fight many of them at once even though the original level design assumed that you could simply shoot them in the face. In fact, I would argue that pinky demons in general are OP. I honestly don't like what they did with them in this game and am very thankful that you can turn their armor off in snapmap. In snapmap I just turn their armor off and give them more health instead.

Some hardcore gamer you turned out to be. Pinky demons in Doom'16 are easy to dodge and kill. Go around them, over them, stun them...

methy said:

I thought you guys would be the most bothered by it.

Don't you remember the shitstorm after they briefly showed a classic map before the game was released? We didn't get very much but just from seeing the upside down textures, people were LIVID. I'm surprised they didn't even fix it.

As Jaxxoon said, we just sorta got used to it.

Edward850 said:

Pinky demons in Doom'16 are easy to dodge and kill. Go around them, over them, stun them...

While on the SP campaing it's easy to deal with them, on the classic maps pinky demons are waay tooo OP due to the classic level's design. I find E2M6 to be nearly impossible because of it's narrow corridors. It's really hard to dodge it's attack if you ever get cornered by one

Do you know how to get good at a game? I can tell you the first step, as I'm extremely good at many games. The first step is to not blame the game for your losses, Take the initiative and try to understand what it is that you are doing wrong. If you cannot do this, then you'll not adapt.

MrGlide said:

Do you know how to get good at a game? I can tell you the first step, as I'm extremely good at many games.

Seriously?

*Sigh*

I'll elaborate. Im not trying to say "Oh no, it's way to hard, so it suck's!", but rather that i agree with OP about pinkies on classic maps. They are on a different context for how they were designed on the main game (in many ways, they behave in a way to counter the weakness they had on the classic games), so naturaly they are tougher to deal with when you place them in the classic levels

The classic levels really do feel like a last minute thing to get on the nostalgia train. I imagine if they gave it more time they probably would have made it like the new order classic levels

Edward850 said:

Some hardcore gamer you turned out to be. Pinky demons in Doom'16 are easy to dodge and kill. Go around them, over them, stun them...

Not when there are multiple charging you in cramped areas with low ceilings, they aren't. Halls of the Damned is a great example of Doom 2016's Pinkies making a classic map much more difficult than it actually should be.

Possessed Soldiers are also poorly balanced. A great example is the "SSG room" in The Underhalls, which is a complete clusterfuck since the Possessed are so much more durable than Former Humans/Sergeants.

They should have removed the face armor of the pinkies and also had the majority of the possessed consist of the regular stumbling, bumbling possessed in the classic levels intermixed with possessed soldiers. Then the maps would be a little more balanced like the originals. House of Pain is a damn hard level in Doom 2016, at least for me. In the original, all these levels were easy to dominate. So yeah, they made the Classic maps REALLY poorly balanced in terms of difficulty.

Mobtus said:

We didn't get very much but just from seeing the upside down textures, people were LIVID. I'm surprised they didn't even fix it.

I'm glad they didn't bother fixing such a miniscule mistake, just because the fans started crying, when they have bigger fish to fry (like game crashing bugs).

I could comment on a few of the classic maps being unbalanced and being unexpectedly difficult in places, as that is closer to an actual valid complaint, but frankly, I don't give a shit.
Every classic map I've played so far is perfectly beatable and if they're a little unbalanced, it just makes it more of a challenge and gives the map a little longevity, because you need to figure out how to compensate for the imbalance.

I'm rather grateful that they included so many classic maps. Doom 2 included a meagre two Secret classic Wolfenstein homage maps back in 1994 (a time when secret levels were the norm) and with us having just crawled out of the Dark Ages of No Secret Levels, having so many Secret Levels to play with is just Id spoiling us.

Seriously,
who gives a shit about a few misaligned textures?

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dsm said:

Seriously,
who gives a shit about a few misaligned textures?

Are you not aware which site are you on? Go ahead, post a picture here and see if no one will point out any egregious misalignments.

I can't belive it.... Those maps are bonus content, they were added as homage to the original Doom. They are fun to play plus searching for them was fun too.
People should stop crying about every single detail they don't like and enjoy what they got.