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DooMBoy

ZDoomHeretic editing?

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Just wondering before I do anything foolish-is it possible to edit Heretic with ZDooMHeXen and have ACS scripts and deep water and all that?

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I'm pretty sure it's not possible to edit a heretic-specific wad and have those features added (scripts, deep water). You can edit a doom or doom2 wad in "zdoom-hexen mode" and have the Heretic things in the wad. You bring them in with the spawnspot script command. There have been recent threads about this, also about spawning things with TIDs (tags) assigned.

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DooMBoy said:

is it possible to edit Heretic with ZDooMHeXen and have ACS scripts and deep water and all that?

Yes. The only problem is, that you'll need a config file for WA that's based on the Heretic config file, but has all the ZDoom stuff.

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Hey! This is a cool idea! Tarin, I think DooMBoy uses DeePsea so he may be at Jack's mercy for such a config file. Anyway, I looked into your idea and think I've got it worked out. Used zwadconv.exe on heretic.wad and on a heretic pwad. Then, made my own zdoom_h.wcf file by basically going through it and writing the heretic stuff over the doom stuff but leaving the enhanced zdoom stuff there. It appears to be working. Not sure what bugs remain, but WA is happy and the pwad displays properly.

Are there any heretic wads out there which use the newer zdoom features?

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It must have been fixed, it works fine. The morph ovum appears both in heretic.wad (played with zdoom) and also in a doom2/zdoom wad where I put the egg sprite graphics. In each case I used the console command "summon artiegg" to make it appear in front of me. Playing heretic, you can see the ovum in your inventory. In doom2/zdoom mode, I don't see any inventory.

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Randy has just informed us that we can design heretic using all ZDoom specifig stuff, using ZETH and he will make a config file for Wad Autor soon.

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It's almost as if Randy read this thread and decided to comment. I see that Xdoom and I have both made trial .wcf files to check it out. :)

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Biffy said:

It must have been fixed, it works fine. The morph ovum appears both in heretic.wad (played with zdoom) and also in a doom2/zdoom wad where I put the egg sprite graphics. In each case I used the console command "summon artiegg" to make it appear in front of me. Playing heretic, you can see the ovum in your inventory. In doom2/zdoom mode, I don't see any inventory.


Which version of ZDoom are you using? I use 1.23 beta 33, and when I try it (clicking on zdoom.exe in the heretic directory) the eggs that were already on the map are not there. When I typed 'summon artiegg' on the console, nothing happened.

BTW, the zdoom files were copied to my heretic directory from my doom directory. Don't know if that's got anything to do with it or not.

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Can someone tell me how this summon ZDoom console command works? I know you bring down the console and type in summon, but commands do you type in after the summon to get enemies, weapons, artifacts, etc. to appear?

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Go to the Zdoom console and type

logfile log.txt

dumpclasses actor

This will create a logfile (called log.txt) that contains a list of all the actors. Any of these can be summoned by the summon command. To use the summon command, simply type

summon [actor name]

at the console. Some actors are not meant to be summoned as static items and may behave oddly. Other items (such as monsters from Heretic) will appear, but unless you have loaded a WAD with the sprites and sounds to support them, they will be invisible.

In the next release, there will be some new script commands to allow you to spawn actors at map spots throughout your level - essentially allowing you to bring Heretic and Hexen items into Doom as well as spawn any legal type of doom actor (previously the spawning list has been limited). At the moment, however, the summon console command is limited to summoning the actor in question right in front of you.

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Ultimate DooMer said:

Which version of ZDoom are you using? I use 1.23 beta 33, and when I try it (clicking on zdoom.exe in the heretic directory) the eggs that were already on the map are not there. When I typed 'summon artiegg' on the console, nothing happened.


See the thread about newer zdoom versions in the Source Ports forum. Read carefully, the information is buried there.

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Enjay said:
...but unless you have loaded a WAD with the sprites and sounds to support them, they will be invisible.

Here's where I'm confused. I tried loading up doom.wad using the -file parameter while using Heretic as the main iwad, but everything went into 16 colors and...well you can guess the rest.

How exactly do I make a wad with all the Doom/Heretic/HeXen sprites and sounds?

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DooMBoy said:

Here's where I'm confused. I tried loading up doom.wad using the -file parameter while using Heretic as the main iwad, but everything went into 16 colors and...well you can guess the rest.

How exactly do I make a wad with all the Doom/Heretic/HeXen sprites and sounds?


Well, first off, things didn't go into 16 colours, you were using the Doom playpal lump in Heretic, so the game was using the wrong palette. So any of the Heretic graphics that were being displayed would have looked a right mess. You would also have loaded up the Doom Texture and PNAMES lumps, which again would mess up how Heretic looked because it wouldn't be able to find the textures it was looking for in the Heretic levels. In fact, there would be a whole load of lump conflicts, including the maps I suppose, if you loaded doom.wad rather than doom2.wad. You should only include the lumps you need to support the items you want to bring into your Heretic game.

What you need to do is export the graphics for any item you want to use in a different game and convert them to the palette for the game you are going to be loading them into. DeePsea (which I think you use) is good for this as you can export a whole bunch of graphics to a new WAD in one step (under the F7 menu), and use DeePsea to convert the graphics in that WAD to a new game palette too (using the DeePsea graphics editor, also under F7).

You will also need to include the sounds (if any) for your item in your WAD, and also make a SNDINFO lump that includes entries for the item you are using. The Zdoom.wad SNDINFO lump is a good place to look for the correct entries. In SNDINFO there are markers like $ifdoom and $ifheretic. If a sound is in the $ifdoom section, the entries will only be read if the game main IWAD is one of the doom ones. Copy any entries you want, and make your own SNDINFO with them. If you want the sounds to be read regardless of which game you are playing, don't put them in a $ifheretic section, if you just want them in your Heretic games, put a $ifheretic section marker at the start, and an $endif at the end.

Caution, there are some sprites and sounds in the 2 games that conflict. The Ironlich from Heretic uses the same sprite names as the Doom Caco, some of the Heretic little red imp sounds use the same SNDINFO entry names as the Doom Imp and the Heretic Knight shares some sound entry names with the Doom Hell Knight. It is possible to create a custom wad, complete with a dehacked patch, to get round this if you are importing the monsters into Doom. I haven't tried doing something similar when importing the conflicting enemies into Heretic.

FYI, because of the way ZDoom allows you to cross items over from one game to another, I have successfully managed to get all the Heretic and Hexen monsters into a Doom game, a few "test" Doom monsters into a Heretic game, and have played all of Heretic Episode 1 using the Doom2 weapons (great fun). It's all just a matter of experimentation.

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Ultimate DooMer said:

Now I can play my heretic episode with a source port....
(as the desired effect that was stopping the puzzles now works)

Do you mean you have made a heretic wad? I'd like to see it if so, llblakely@earthlink.net.
Come to think of it, I made a Heretic pwad about 5 years ago when I first learned editing, wonder if I can find it in a dusty place on the hard drive.... :)

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Nigel has made a wad that summons heretic monsters inside doom2 levels, by using the splash effect of ZDoom, quite a neat trick.

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Biffy said:

Do you mean you have made a heretic wad? I'd like to see it if so, llblakely@earthlink.net.
Come to think of it, I made a Heretic pwad about 5 years ago when I first learned editing, wonder if I can find it in a dusty place on the hard drive.... :)


Yep, a 9-level episode called Shadowcaster, released a few months ago (shadow.wad, see sig)
It's available here. It's 1.5 meg, so I can't mail it to you (1 meg limit on attachments)

Currently it only works properly with vanilla Heretic (v1.3) but I'm gonna fix a bug (switch '2' in e5m3 doesn't work in ZDoom) and play it through with the new version of ZDoom. If its fine, I'll re-release it in the next 2 or 3 days.

I'd like to see that heretic pwad of yours, if you can find it...

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Sphagne said:

Nigel has made a wad that summons heretic monsters inside doom2 levels, by using the splash effect of ZDoom, quite a neat trick.


Oooh yeah so I did, I forgot about that :-)

As you said, it was using the splash effect and was really a work around because it wasn't possible to bring the monsters in directly to a map spot via a script (as will be possible with Zdoom2). When Zdoom2 comes out, this map will be obsolete, but if you want it...

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Enjay001/Her01.zip

At least I think that's it. I can't get on to Tripod ftp ATM. Remember, this map is a workaround. There will be a much better, much easier way to do it when Zdoom2 is released.

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Ultimate DooMer said:

Yep, a 9-level episode called Shadowcaster, released a few months ago (shadow.wad, see sig)
It's available here. It's 1.5 meg, so I can't mail it to you (1 meg limit on attachments)

Currently it only works properly with vanilla Heretic (v1.3) but I'm gonna fix a bug (switch '2' in e5m3 doesn't work in ZDoom) and play it through with the new version of ZDoom. If its fine, I'll re-release it in the next 2 or 3 days.

I'd like to see that heretic pwad of yours, if you can find it...

I downloaded Shadowcaster and gave it a quick test - looks pretty good. I wonder how I can load the hhe patch with zdoom, any ideas? Zdoom ignores -deh shadow.hhe (I did not really expect that to work). If the text patch is not loaded, nothing is really missing from the gameplay, is it?

I did find that old wad I made (almost six years ago) and it's funny to look back on it, seeing how much ammo and healh I put, and gave stronger weapons pretty early. One of the mistakes was probably that I meant to have some of those weapons for dm only but did not flag them as such. It's under 200 KB zipped, I'll email it if I can.

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Biffy said:

I downloaded Shadowcaster and gave it a quick test - looks pretty good. I wonder how I can load the hhe patch with zdoom, any ideas? Zdoom ignores -deh shadow.hhe (I did not really expect that to work). If the text patch is not loaded, nothing is really missing from the gameplay, is it?


That's the only problem with it now, as ZDoom doesn't seem to support the hhe patch. (I tried zdoom -hhe shadow.hhe as well...) The only thing it contains are the automap names, victory text, episode title and skill titles. It doesn't affect it that much, except at the end, when the normal e5 end text comes on. (sc-end.txt contains the proper end text, so read that when you complete it)

BTW, I've played it through with ZDoom, fixed a load of ZDoom-specific bugs and I'm re-releasing it tomorrow, so I'd wait until then, as there were quite a few 'hidden problems' I found with ZDoom. They all work fine now, though.

(I'll let you know on this forum when I've uploaded it)

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Biffy: I played that old wad of yours, not bad. Bit over the top with the ammo, but the design wasn't that bad (and that humourous texture was cool!). I liked the need for flying at the start, cos I think flying is underused in Heretic. I tried to remedy that in level 4 of Shadowcaster, but even that's only one area.

BTW, I've uploaded it to the 3d archives, just waiting for it to be updated on the server (you'll know when it's done, as the date will change from 03/06/02 to 09/09/02 in the directory. I'll let you know when it's been done)

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Ultimate DooMer said:

BTW, I've uploaded it to the 3d archives, just waiting for it to be updated on the server (you'll know when it's done, as the date will change from 03/06/02 to 09/09/02 in the directory. I'll let you know when it's been done)

OK, Heretic fans are waiting!

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