[RELEASED] Gridlock - A community project (maps aligned to the 64 units grid)

mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

What level is the one in the bottom image?

MAP18: Blood Cathedral by doom2day

Pinchy said:

I can't seem to replicate the error and the nodes viewer doesn't show any glitches.

All I could suggest is selecting the entire map and Things and moving them so the nodes redraw.

So this unpleasant effect just me. I wonder how will the finished WAD.

I have had an effect in the past where a glitch like that moves around the map based on what's done first, but that was a long time ago, like when this map was made.

I think this kind of glitch became extinct when I started to use the ZDBSP Extended Nodes node builder for my PrBoom maps.

I had to get that from a link someone posted in a twitch stream, it's been so long I forget who it was. Download it and place it in your nodebuilders folder right away if you build Boom maps.

Sorry if this has already been reported, but the exit for map 13 just restarted the map instead of advancing to map 14.

↑ ty :þ

@FractalXX: thanks for placing Old Town in an early slot, and keeping the song. :D
2 fixes needed for the Mapinfo of the map:
next = MAP14
sky1 = "sky1" (white sky, sorry for not asking earlier ;))

Sky is still missing in map 3 also.

How is map 6 going? The last part looks unfinished but still no updates lol.
Plus it's pretty good (and tech!), wouldn't mind replaying it. :þ

BeeWen said:

How's the secrets on this map?

Complicated answer.
IMO player willingness and attention span to look for secrets depend on the "workload" of the task. Small map, okay. Large map, urgh.
I found 2/5 I think (plasma rifle & backpacks), rest with IDDT.
Now that I know where to look they seem fine, but because the map is large I think they're easier to miss.
Actually if your map had been 3 maps (it kinda is), then I might have found them all lol.
One way to deal with this is to use puzzles, so that players question how to reach the secrets rather than where they are.

Pinchy said:

Map

Sheev Wheej

Really enjoyed the various paths you can take in this one. Dying a lot was a real plus there to make use of that lol. (For some reason, what turned out to be the easiest path was the one I tried last.)
Overall the western area was a lot harder than the rest, flooded from everywhere and running around enemies to find ammo.
The outdoor parts looked absolutely great (huge round border included), however I found the white brick cramped corridors too plain/dull (especially as the white bricks covered area is so large; could have used more texture variations IMO).
Bit sad that the stairway at the very end can't be seen without IDCLIP.
Last thing that struck me was how well the spawning (teleporting) monsters were positionned. It felt a lot more reasoned and well thought out than usual. (Sadly I hate spawning monsters but kudos still. :þ)

mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

My level is finished. Video of it will be up soon.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/9abkyjtqrjr38c9/Temple_of_Despair.wad

Loved the beginning, but then less and less.
The atmosphere is nice and consistent throughout (loved the song too), the fights were alright, but the progression was confusing, and lacked sense to me at times.
The beginning looked and played great. I liked that it was spammy but quick since monsters had low health.

Troubles start outside. The layout is simple enough not to get lost, there aren't many places to go to, but there's nothing to guide the player, and potentially a lot of backtracking if they keep making wrong choices or miss something.

First the Cacodemon area (nice looking btw). The teleporter texture is confusing because it's monster only, even though monsters in this level are shown to teleport on other floors. It's not a player exit teleporter for later either. In the end it's the only time this area will be used.

Next is walking through cliffs and caves (nice wide space there).
And then the revenants/lava room. I tried to make sense of the weird design by hiding behind a switch pillar to fight them (eventually made it after countless reloads). The thing is, if you intended players to run back before hitting the switches and hide at the entrance like your playthrough shows, then the switches and the walkways to them weren't actually needed in the first place. If they're traps, the main walkway to the end door does just as good.
I would also say that visually this area looked clearly inferior to the rest of the map.
Then when exiting the area with the teleporter, I missed the switch next to it. Sure it was big enough to be seen, but a line on the floor would have been failproof for this job (actually the one used to release the revenants could have done it since they do the same thing).
Teleported back to start and not yet knowing I missed a switch, I went through the map again to find what was new. Won't count that if you fix it so it can't happen to other players.

Found switch, teleported back to start again. Finally that stone circle overlook is now open. (Middle point between the mancubi could have used some item. Weird it didn't.
Btw the other circle next to it, with the mancubus and the 4 revenants around him on pillars, this place also looked like it would have use for later, like some boss monster teleporting on it.)

At this point I would also mention that pushing the switch at start each time the player goes outside is overkill.
The wall could simply stay open (and the switch one use only). Players have no reason to be blocked outside since there's barely any monster there anyway.
I can't believe you spent like 3 minutes backtracking in your playthrough to telefrag the mancubi one by one. With the wall open it would have been at least twice as fast.

Got yellow key, got to yellow door. And now is the truly bad part.
The door opens to a wall, that the player has to push, but doesn't react since it's not a switch texture.
Just this is enough to make the player wonder if this wasn't a fake yellow door with a true one elsewhere.
Then they have to backtrack to the other side of the level to find a lift has raised, without any clue about it.

Instead of doing that, it would have been much more helpful to the player to teleport them directly there. At the rocket launcher, a safe spot directly in front of the new lift.
If you really want the player to walk, then spawn monsters on the way to show there's something new in that direction.

And finally the last area with lava and chaingunners. It was straightforward but didn't seem really connected with the rest of the level.
The chaingunner challenge was pretty nice, well balanced, and there the teleporters were justified. The weird part was that building in the middle that simply had no use. Might as well have been a stone cliff or lava geyser for the same gameplay.
The end room looked out of place too.


tl;dr a good looking, enjoyable map, degraded by a few really puzzling design choices. Easily fixable though.



But more importantly there are plenty of vertices not aligned throughout the map on the rocky cliffs, stairs, walls. :þ

sudo459 said:

I'm guessing this project is about to be at the final stages? If there is anything technically wrong with my map, anyone here can feel free to fix it. I won't be online for the next couple of months, so I can't do it myself. I think my map is fine though.

Found no bugs on both playthroughs, but had trouble finding how to make the last monsters spawn:
I didn't jump from the ledge where the blue keycard is, because there's no reason to. Placing items right below would help.
Also was puzzled that there weren't any monsters in the south lake, just secrets.
Overall I think it's one of the maps of this project that feels the most like an actual level, as in the whole thing being a single elaborate structure.
The best thing was the spiderdemon teleporting to the main area only in the 2nd playthrough. Total surprise. :D

Ninehills42 said:

I think map31 is out of place, so we could use a new map for the map31 slot too.

Agree with that.
Since it was brought up before, it could replace map 4 lol.

I also just now found that the exit on map 19 takes you to the first text story screen....then takes you to map 25.

I think map01 should be moved from that slot. Its not the ideal map to start with.

GregLafitte said:

I also just now found that the exit on map 19 takes you to the first text story screen....then takes you to map 25.

I think it is because of the MAPINFO lump.

We can replace MAP31 but only if someone is willing to build a secret map. (with a super-secret exit, of course)

The reason I've chosen Middleway for MAP01 is that it's kind of an Entryway redux.

I'll fix the MAPINFO bugs and the node-builder bugs, soon.

FractalXX said:

We can replace MAP31 but only if someone is willing to build a secret map. (with a super-secret exit, of course)

The reason I've chosen Middleway for MAP01 is that it's kind of an Entryway redux.

I'll fix the MAPINFO bugs and the node-builder bugs, soon.

I think I could do level 31. I just got started making another level.

FractalXX said:

The reason I've chosen Middleway for MAP01 is that it's kind of an Entryway redux.

Makes sense, But the difficuilty of that level isn't anywhere near the original Entryway map. I think Gothicrock would be better for map01.

How do you transfer sky textures?

Ninehills42 said:

Makes sense, But the difficuilty of that level isn't anywhere near the original Entryway map. I think Gothicrock would be better for map01.

I agree with that, but Gothrock is not a tech-level and wouldn't fit in the progression, sadly. I think, Retrofit was better for MAP01, though.

FractalXX said:

I agree with that, but Gothrock is not a tech-level and wouldn't fit in the progression, sadly. I think, Retrofit was better for MAP01, though.

Hm... I agree.

I tried looking through all maps for unaligned vertices, and found some:

05 / Stiff - stairs, rays of light
09 / The Lost Tower - cliffs
10 / Through & Around - cliffs, broken objects
11 / Retrofit - grass in NW corner (single one lol, also some sectors there could be merged)
21 / Sheev Wheej - map's circle boundary, columns in North & West areas, rogue linedef near SSG (these all look like they're intentional)
28 / Temple of Despair - see post on previous page
32 / Dinosaur foot - South peak lol

May have missed more.
Anyway what to do about them? Fix or let go?


About maps order, Map 27 (Crimson Castle) kind of stands out being so short with long maps around. If it's okay I would suggest swapping it with Map 20, as Maps 16-19 are all somewhat short.

About Map 01 I agree that Middleway might be too hard (though I would naturally put it there too), and so is GothRock.
I liked Retrofit as starting map too, and its catchy song for introduction. :)
Overgrowth was also suggested for Map 01 for showcasing the project/concept.


Which brings me to Map 32 (Dinosaur Foot). That's a bonus map alright, but the minimalist geometry leaves me wondering if the rules were meant to be taken this literally.


@Ninehills42: I beat Castle of Atlantis and Tower of Hope, but I can't make it past the blue area in The Show Must Go On (cheated to end). Are you able to complete it without saving? (Not like I would try to but I'm curious lol.)
Slaughter maps aren't my thing, but I really like the massive scale in TSMGO, and the meticulous work in contrast to the brutal gameplay. The song fits great too.

Cyberia-Mix said:

I tried looking through all maps for unaligned vertices, and found some:

05 / Stiff - stairs
09 / The Lost Tower - cliffs
10 / Through & Around - cliffs, broken objects
11 / Retrofit - grass in NW corner (single one lol, also some sectors there could be merged)
21 / Sheev Wheej - map's circle boundary, columns in North & West areas, rogue linedef near SSG (these all look like they're intentional)
28 / Temple of Despair - see post on previous page
32 / Dinosaur foot - South peak lol

May have missed more.
Anyway what to do about them? Fix or let go?


About maps order, Map 27 (Crimson Castle) kind of stands out being so short with long maps around. If it's okay I would suggest swapping it with Map 20, as Maps 16-19 are all somewhat short.

About Map 01 I agree that Middleway might be too hard (though I would naturally put it there too), and so is GothRock.
I liked Retrofit as starting map too, and its catchy song for introduction. :)
Overgrowth was also suggested for Map 01 for showcasing the project/concept.


Which brings me to Map 32 (Dinosaur Foot). That's a bonus map alright, but the minimalist geometry leaves me wondering if the rules were meant to be taken this literally.


@Ninehills42: I beat Castle of Atlantis and Tower of Hope, but I can't make it past the blue area in The Show Must Go On (cheated to end). Are you able to complete it without saving? (Not like I would try to but I'm curious lol.)
Slaughter maps aren't my thing, but I really like the massive scale in TSMGO, and the meticulous work in contrast to the brutal gameplay. The song fits great too.

I updated my Dinosaur Foot level. I made changes that you suggested. As for the Temple of Despair level, I am working on it. UPDATED (10-25-2016):http://www.mediafire.com/file/j8t8ii9s437asv9/Dinosaur_Foot_v2.wad

I updated Temple of Despair. If there is anything I forgot to do, just let me know. I aligned the vertices on the 64 grid as suggested. UPDATED(10-25-2016): http://www.mediafire.com/file/70858o53smoty31/Temple_of_Despair_v2.wad

My new level is finished. Since so many of you complained that "Trouble on the Bridge" did not fit well, I have a level that may be a good substitute. If there are any vertices that are not lined up along the 64-grid, just let me know and I will update it. My level is titled "Castle of Darkness."

Castle of Darkness: http://www.mediafire.com/file/wmik8kwyt33ah3s/Castle_of_Darkness.wad

Castle of Darkness demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtnE7dUxfI

About the map order... this project was a 64x64 grid restriction... so the themes will be quite varied as well as having many different authors. Trying to find a workable order is quite the challenge but in the end as long as all the maps are here and the DIFFICULTY scales upwards as you go through the maps then we're good. In a project like this, sticking to a theme throughout the WAD seems to be asking a lot since there are various themes already. Just my two cents.

Thanks for pointing these out, I was exhausted building this map and some things went unnoticed.

I also made it so you can view the bridge at the exit and added a boat there as someone mentioned that.

Sheev Wheej V0.96

You seem to be having some trouble picking a map one and that it should be tech themed, I could put something together if you want, since it's a first small map, or maybe just lower the difficulty of Middleway, not sure if that would take too much away from the map though.

Cyberia-Mix said:

@Ninehills42: I beat Castle of Atlantis and Tower of Hope, but I can't make it past the blue area in The Show Must Go On (cheated to end). Are you able to complete it without saving? (Not like I would try to but I'm curious lol.)
Slaughter maps aren't my thing, but I really like the massive scale in TSMGO, and the meticulous work in contrast to the brutal gameplay. The song fits great too.

Same goes for me, I beat CoA and ToH, but i didnt even try to finish TMSGO without saves. That doesnt mean its not possible, since MartianDoomer has done it, there's an about 1.5 hour long video on his Youtube channel where he beats it.

I'll update everything next week.

Nevander's suggestion made me rethink the map order since the difficulty is not in a perfect order.
I'll come up with one later on but feel free to suggest one if you have time.

My recommendation for the music for the level, "The Show Must Go On," would be use the clockwork midi soundtrack from "Castlevania 3: Dracula's Curse." I had a feeling that the music fits well.

mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

My recommendation for the music for the level, "The Show Must Go On," would be use the clockwork midi soundtrack from "Castlevania 3: Dracula's Curse." I had a feeling that the music fits well.

I agree, but the volume should be a little bit lower than its in your video :)

Ninehills42 said:

I agree, but the volume should be a little bit lower than its in your video :)

The game gives you the option to lower the music volume. All you have to do when you is pause the game then go to options and then sound options. Once you go to sound options, it gives you different types of volumes, including what I've mentioned before.

Pinchy said:

Thanks for pointing these out, I was exhausted building this map and some things went unnoticed.

I also made it so you can view the bridge at the exit and added a boat there as someone mentioned that.

Sheev Wheej V0.96

Well, the fixes still have issues:

- In the North part, monsters are stuck in the supports of the new platforms (but somehow not all the time).
Suggestion: don't you think it'd look/play better if you left the platforms 128 wide and just removed the corner supports?
- Found 2 more unaligned vertices in the green armor room nearby.
- In the West part, the new pillar didn't solve anything lol. You could turn it into a wall with a single horizontal opening rather than vertical ones.

The boat looks cool. I think it would help if you made it point the other way so players see the front from the secret area. From the back I had trouble figuring out what it was. :þ

I think the large secret area near the beginning that opens when getting the plasma rifle would be a pretty good candidate for the secret exit to Map31.
Players can guess the area must have some purpose but they don't know how to open it. And by the time it's open they may have forgotten about it and miss it, since the entrance is not really in view.
All of that makes a great combo for a secret exit.

mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

Castle of Darkness: http://www.mediafire.com/file/wmik8kwyt33ah3s/Castle_of_Darkness.wad

This map has the same issues as ToD, among others. Overall it's clearly rushed.
You could do much better but don't seem to want to.
Maybe that's just me but I don't find it very nice to claim a project slot with this mindset.

Ninehills42 said:

I agree, but the volume should be a little bit lower than its in your video :)

I thought the song volume was fine.
I can see I'm not saving enough BFG ammo. Well, no way I'm using SSG in a map that long, so I guess I'll leave it at that. Good work to both on the map and the playthrough though.

Cyberia-Mix said:

Well, the fixes still have issues:

- In the North part, monsters are stuck in the supports of the new platforms (but somehow not all the time).
Suggestion: don't you think it'd look/play better if you left the platforms 128 wide and just removed the corner supports?
- Found 2 more unaligned vertices in the green armor room nearby.
- In the West part, the new pillar didn't solve anything lol. You could turn it into a wall with a single horizontal opening rather than vertical ones.

The boat looks cool. I think it would help if you made it point the other way so players see the front from the secret area. From the back I had trouble figuring out what it was. :þ

I think the large secret area near the beginning that opens when getting the plasma rifle would be a pretty good candidate for the secret exit to Map31.
Players can guess the area must have some purpose but they don't know how to open it. And by the time it's open they may have forgotten about it and miss it, since the entrance is not really in view.
All of that makes a great combo for a secret exit.

This map has the same issues as ToD, among others. Overall it's clearly rushed.
You could do much better but don't seem to want to.
Maybe that's just me but I don't find it very nice to claim a project slot with this mindset.

I thought the song volume was fine.
I can see I'm not saving enough BFG ammo. Well, no way I'm using SSG in a map that long, so I guess I'll leave it at that. Good work to both on the map and the playthrough though.

I looked at my Castle of Darkness level and I don't see any issues.

I'll leave this update here for now until the secret exit is decided.

V0.97

Pinchy said:

I'll leave this update here for now until the secret exit is decided.

V0.97

It's great!

mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I looked at my Castle of Darkness level and I don't see any issues.

It's a single string of bare corridors. No choices to make for the player, and close to no decoration, architecture or lighting.

That could be a lack of skills, but I think your other maps (saw a bit on youtube as well) show that you have them.

It seems obvious to me (but I could be wrong) that your works focus on gameplay and not so much on looks (though there's some good stuff here and there), and as long as there's at least one of the two that's fine.

However I would argue that Castle of Darkness has neither. It's tamer than your other works (and I thank you for that, I think the wad has plenty of hard & slaughter maps at this point), but it's not prettier to compensate the lack of challenge and freedom.

There's a degree of subjectivity in what looks/plays good, but still a safe margin from there when saying following a single route in a basic environment is not fun.
It confuses me that you would contest that.


And now onto more specific points:

- Climbing walls with the Archvile was a neat idea.
However if the player mistakenly kills it they need to restart, possibly from the beginning of the map.
Maybe that's good in your book if you only target hardcore players, but others will be put off by this.
I would avoid it by placing this phase very early in the map.

- The door in lava without suit or health nearby is also a source of forced restarts.
I don't see any good outcome from this.

- A switch unlocks a teleporter at the other end of the map. And there's nothing else to do than backtracking all the way to there.
I mentionned that stuff about Temple of Despair already.
Why would you deliberately do this? Where's the player's enjoyment here?

- Given the rest of the map, the joke about the secret exit falls flat.

Cyberia-Mix said:

It's great!


It's a single string of bare corridors. No choices to make for the player, and close to no decoration, architecture or lighting.

That could be a lack of skills, but I think your other maps (saw a bit on youtube as well) show that you have them.

It seems obvious to me (but I could be wrong) that your works focus on gameplay and not so much on looks (though there's some good stuff here and there), and as long as there's at least one of the two that's fine.

However I would argue that Castle of Darkness has neither. It's tamer than your other works (and I thank you for that, I think the wad has plenty of hard & slaughter maps at this point), but it's not prettier to compensate the lack of challenge and freedom.

There's a degree of subjectivity in what looks/plays good, but still a safe margin from there when saying following a single route in a basic environment is not fun.
It confuses me that you would contest that.


And now onto more specific points:

- Climbing walls with the Archvile was a neat idea.
However if the player mistakenly kills it they need to restart, possibly from the beginning of the map.
Maybe that's good in your book if you only target hardcore players, but others will be put off by this.
I would avoid it by placing this phase very early in the map.

- The door in lava without suit or health nearby is also a source of forced restarts.
I don't see any good outcome from this.

- A switch unlocks a teleporter at the other end of the map. And there's nothing else to do than backtracking all the way to there.
I mentionned that stuff about Temple of Despair already.
Why would you deliberately do this? Where's the player's enjoyment here?

- Given the rest of the map, the joke about the secret exit falls flat.

I have a feeling that you are going to keep getting defensive about it, making excuses as to why my level should not be accepted. The purpose of my videos is to assist people who are having issues getting through the level, and before you ask me a ridiculous question like "What if the people don't want to watch the videos?," people will have to watch them for reference. If they don't have the flash player to view the video, they will have to download and install it from the internet. I'm not trying to defame you by any means, but I have a feeling that you are going to make me keep making changes to my level and having to delete the old file from the cloud storage website and putting a new one in, and this is where I draw the line. I am not making any more changes to the level. I'm done. This is the best that it is going to get, and I am not making a new level to substitute for it.

You don't even need Flash Player for YouTube anymore unless you're trying to watch a video by bypassing the age restriction or viewing a copyright notice preview.