A map of i did

i have did this map for freedoom 2 a year ago in mind to make it diferent map from doom2 mapping style, today i was wandering into my archieves and i found it, i think of i had never showed it on forum to you guys so i'll be doing it now, i have did few fixes in the map since it was buged, so now its working has intended.

Note: DO NOT PLAY IN NIGHTMARE, the map may broke in nightmare.
Link: http://www.geocities.ws/p/r/protox/FreeDoom/FreeDoom2/map07.wad

Slot 07
This a hard and bit puzzle map, i'll let you guys figure it out, but watch out for the ammo dont run out hehehehehe.
i do not proposal a map switch unless you guys want it. so what you guys think of this map? leave a feedback down there.

Dificults settings applyed, Recommended normal dificult.

Played.
WTH

The archvile spam. (Not cool man. Not cool.)
The initial constant mancubus regeneration (that was cool actually)
The map itself requires past knowledge if a player wants to finish it. (I would like Freedoom to not have maps like that)

have you finished the map? i was actualy interesting in see a demo.

Did I finish it? Yes.
Did do it by IDDQD? Yes, because I'm a bad person.

But seriously, that's extremely crazy hard.
If you want a legit demo, your gonna have to ask the speedrunners in the Speed Demo forums.

Voros said:

Did I finish it? Yes.
Did do it by IDDQD? Yes, because I'm a bad person.

But seriously, that's extremely crazy hard.
If you want a legit demo, your gonna have to ask the speedrunners in the Speed Demo forums.

... dont take what i'm going to say like offense but for me extreme crazy is hell revealed.

i can beat in uv whitout secret abuse/usage.
http://www.geocities.ws/protox/FreeDoom/Others/map07uv.lmp (prboom)

playing it in normal dificult like i sayd make the map very fair and in easy it give ever godsphere so its not that hard (hard is to be hardcore i suppose)

Protox said:

i can beat in uv whitout secret abuse/usage.
http://www.geocities.ws/protox/FreeDoom/Others/map07uv.lmp (prboom)

That's because you already know the map layout, monster encounters and traps, item placement, etc. Watching the demo, its obvious that it isn't your first time playing the map.
_{damn, you made it look easy}

Voros said:

_{damn, you made it look easy}

and i dont ever take the skag secret route heh.

Edit: Also if you guys want i can put more effort in that map to make it work better, like vannila and nightmare, so it can be of any use at the end since this map has a unique gameplay to a map07 slot.

Nice map, i liked it, missed the secret(s), played on -complevel 9 and -skill 4.
I should have probably used the freedoom iwad, since the map was chocked full of homs using doom2.

Died plenty of times, i was able to figure it out fairly quikly, but the mancubuses weren't happy about it.

Cacowad said:

Nice map, i liked it, missed the secret(s), played on -complevel 9 and -skill 4.
I should have probably used the freedoom iwad, since the map was chocked full of homs using doom2.

Died plenty of times, i was able to figure it out fairly quikly, but the mancubuses weren't happy about it.

yes this map was made to freedoom2 and you dont missed all secrets you actualy found (cheated) the megasphere one.

Looks like it was a bit fustrating in the begin until you figured the puzzle, but saying seriosly i rofl'ed there when you did it and go in outside whit the archs, maybe i'll remove 2 archviles from the puzzle solving making them die in a process leaving less of them in outside, since after the main part the remaining is actualy easy to do.

I'm genuinely curious here, but how did you achieve the combat slugs to constantly regenerate? I'm guessing there were some hidden flame bringers nearby that did this. Initially I thought it was some DeHacked trick, but then I remembered this is protox's map for Freedoom, so that's unlikely.
But damn, the expression on my face after seeing that for the first time, like "what dofuckery is this?"

Mind saying how you did it?

this is actualy a plutonia trick, in doom archvile dont check his own height comparated to the dead monsters so if the arch is atleast 16 pixels of the distance of the body he will heal it, no matter how high he is in the nap, aftr hiting the 2 switchs the room of they're open a teleport and he go to outside pf map.

I think that the archvile count is actually fine, that is, unless you go blinding charging at them as i did the first time i cracked the puzzle :P

Hey Protox, I had the chance to tackle this map over the course of a lunch break; over-all it was a fun map and I enjoyed a good few things about it.

There are a few things, however, that I have to question and comment on that I wasn't a huge fan of; hopefully none of this comes across as harsh; you did a good job on this map.

I recorded a handful of demos for this map as I had to turn the difficulty level down, then down again, heh, finally resting on ITYTD. Not that the map was difficult, but I'm utter garbage on this virtual touchpad for the phone (though that's certainly not to complain about the way D-Touch does it; they did well). Here's a 9-minute demo of me actually beating the map (as opposed to dying a lot) on ITYTD. I missed the skag secret, but I found it afterwards.

Something to note:, I think the BFG should be given rather than secret for easy mode. It totally makes sense for hard mode, and quite possibly medium, to have to AV jump to get the secret BFG, but no player playing on easy should be expected to be capable of making an AV jump, even with an invul sphere, under these conditions. Most of this is due to the monster set and whole general setup of the area. Players playing on easy mode likely will not be capable of hitting those switches behind the arachs with 2 mancs firing at them from behind, in addition to another down the hall to the side. The invul sphere is needed for those switches, as well as for being invaded by 5 AVs. Even with knowledge of that secret's location, I highly doubt any players that belong on easy mode would be capable of: killing the arachs, hitting the switches, AV jumping to the skag gun, and then killing the AVs all within the invul sphere's short timer. Then again, I managed to do it, but I also had to cheese a good amount, which in-and-of-itself isn't bad and is just as much on me for choosing to cheese, the following encounters share the same problems. You also have to consider that players who play on easy will lack some serious coordination that players who play on UV, or even HMP, would have. In addition, the difficulty levels of this map were implemented poorly. I'll grant one thing: I didn't play medium mode. I started on UV, then backed down to HNTR, then down again to ITYTD; testing medium wasn't really needed. So I won't say anything about medium, because I don't know. But between easy and hard there were issues.

Now, of course, none of that would apply in the slightest to hard mode, in which case I would imagine if I were on a computer with mouse+kb this map really wouldn't be that hard. UV does give enough health, armor, and ammo to complete the map reasonably, so to me UV was made just right (minus a couple things I'll cover in a bit).

Starting with the beginning:
- For UV: I liked the 3 HK's in the beginning, simply because skipping them doesn't negate their kinda-threat, especially if they follow you down the hall as you attempt to kill the arachs. Otoh, killing them outside proves to be a waste of ammo when the AVs show up. I like that; bring em back to further harass the player in that area. That all worked really well. I also liked the manc/arach setup there too (and really great use of AVs to revive the mancs constantly! I always love to see stuff like that).
- For ITYTD/HNTR: this area was basically UV mode, but with one less manc(?) and a megasphere+invul sphere instead of a BA+SS. That sounds like it should have been medium mode, imo. My suggestion would be to remove a couple more mancs (say, one for each set of 2, but keep both in the corner chamber near the skag gun) and then tone the HKs down to something like 5-6 imps, or even some shotgunners/bulls, which would actually make the AVs a bit more deadly. I understand the need for 5 AVs here and agree with their use, regardless of difficulty level, so keep them for sure. I think item placement for both UV and HNTR was great and shouldn't be changed, unless you just feel like adding more rockets for fun :)

The following fight (up the lift):
- I'm going to start off not even mentioning difficulty level here; this fight was bad-- Taking into account the AVs that come out here, btw; the arach lines were fine. I will grant that it is possible to fight the AVs+arachs out in the central courtyard, using the two pillars and sides as cover from the AVs, but not only is that more difficult than just corner-camping the center doorway, it's still corner-camping. I don't think corner camping, even in the form of going back-and-forth between pillar and wall like this fight is from the lowered center area, should ever be a recommended or even best tactic in a map. Now, otoh, if there were one AV out there, I could live with one burst of guaranteed damage that won't kill me while I pray I stunlock him instead, but with that many (on both sides), there is no way to just run out and use occasional cover to quickly dispatch of them. I have to say that regardless of difficulty level, given this arena and their placement, plus mandatory progression behind one group: there is an over-use of AVs here. Especially on easy mode; did you even do anything to this area on easy mode to differentiate it from hard? I can't tell.

- For my tastes, a better way for this encounter to go would be to first off: remove all but 1-2 AVs per side (and most certainly only 1 per side for easy mode). Second, pressure the player to come out of the central doorway. This can be done two ways: cacos/PEs/LSs from across the courtyard, near the lift to enter this area would be one, not very threatening (immediately, especially if delt with right away, however if unchecked could be trouble) way to draw players out. For example, some lost souls come through first, enough to get one or two over to the player's location, during which time the cacos/PEs show up to further exacerbate the situation. The second way would be to introduce monsters within that small space where the switch and player are. Possibly just open the wall behind the player half-way to allow some monster(s) to deny that center doorway to the player. Or combine both methods and really get something interesting going. But no matter how you choose to do it, you must draw the player out of that hole and put in a better encounter than corner-camping 101.

The final fight:
- This was a huge let-down and not good to be honest. Never mind that it was the exact same on ITYTD as it was on UV, it was a very poor use of the SM. Watch the demo and you'll see me stand far enough back for the SM to barely scratch me while my projectiles (rockets, in this case) tore him to pieces. The arachs weren't a bad choice, but a mob of revs, or some AVs would have made a better choice over that SM. Possibly a cyber would be good, but it would depend on how obtrusive that wall above the door is to his rockets as he fires at the player. Idk, I think revs would be the best way to go to replace the SM.

All of that aside, this was a nice little map. At 41 monsters, it was fairly bite-sized and still had some nice things going on. I do have a small gripe about the texturing: near the mancs there are archways that separate the manc rooms from each other. Most of the walls here are tan, save the inside textures of the archways, which is the greenish-grey texture with the blue panel up top. It doesn't look 3D; it looks like wallpaper. The support textures used on the corner's dividers looked much, much better, because they matched the texture around the corner and therefore looked 3D.

All-in-all, great job here Protox! I look forward to your next map.

Fonze said:

Most of the walls here are tan, save the inside textures of the archways, which is the greenish-grey texture with the blue panel up top. It doesn't look 3D; it looks like wallpaper.

if you can explain it in a other way i'll be gabdly because my bad inglish is not helping me to undestand it.(forgot it seeing you playing i noticed now)

Note: Since it has some interest i'll go foward to finish it.