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FractalXX

[RELEASED] Gridlock - A community project (maps aligned to the 64 units grid)

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Nevander said:

You don't even need Flash Player for YouTube anymore unless you're trying to watch a video by bypassing the age restriction or viewing a copyright notice preview.

Thanks for the information. If a video is age-restricted and you are not signed in, it will warn you that you have to sign in to YouTube to watch the video. In terms of copyright notices, you would see messages like "This video contains content from [copyright holder], who has blocked it on copyright grounds" or "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by [copyright holder]." I'm sure there is a number of other messages you would encounter in addition to the ones mentioned earlier. If a video is claimed for copyright but it is viewable worldwide, then you may see advertisements on there (in most cases).

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I find it wrong that your 3rd map in the wad can turn out to be the weakest of the 3 and replace another that has more merit, even if its maker agreed.

From there the options are to shrug and get over it like people tend to do, or to engage into an argument knowing it probably won't change a thing. I tried my luck.

I would oppose the map but I can't. Quoting the rules, "any map will be accepted", so as soon as you posted it it was over.
I wasn't expecting tweaks either after you did none on Temple of Despair.
At most I thought you might admit some parts like the secret exit can't exactly be called hard work.

If none of that matters I'm warned now.

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Cyberia-Mix said:

I find it wrong that your 3rd map in the wad can turn out to be the weakest of the 3 and replace another that has more merit, even if its maker agreed.

From there the options are to shrug and get over it like people tend to do, or to engage into an argument knowing it probably won't change a thing. I tried my luck.

I would oppose the map but I can't. Quoting the rules, "any map will be accepted", so as soon as you posted it it was over.
I wasn't expecting tweaks either after you did none on Temple of Despair.
At most I thought you might admit some parts like the secret exit can't exactly be called hard work.

If none of that matters I'm warned now.


Which map are you talking about and what's the problem with it? I don't really get what you are trying to tell us here.
Did you mean Castle of Darkness?

I understand the problem with Temple of Despair, though.

I'm just asking because for me, everyone is an important part of the project, so opinions count.

Edit: My apologies, I didn't read your previous post. I've looked at the map in detail and I agree.

What needs to be changed (IMO):
- There is too much risk involved in some parts, where you may have to restart the level (already stated).
- Visuals is not a really important factor but layout is. I suggest that some variation could be a HUGE improve (I'm talking about the corridors).

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Watched the latest build, now the texture of the sky is fine.

The levels have an offer 4 slip on ordinal. Among the original maps, it stands out thick monsters. From defects I will note immobilized revenant and visible through the wall of the BFG.

2 the map from the plasma gun is not too easy? Is also harmful to water (!?) and the sudden finish line.

3 has problems with the sky in GZDoom.

5 for 5 rooms short, more like second or third.

6 kicks is seen behind the pillars in the starting area, they teleport when you click on the switch would solve this problem.


The yield on the 7 level card open failed.



Here ograniczenie height closes the monsters.



Here we need a grid to visually track the player through the window.

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@BeeWen

The error in your first image is caused by a mismatched texture definition for SW1BRN1. In the Doom2 iwad, it's the same as SW1BRCOM; 128 units wide with a red-green switch in the center. It matches the brown wall to the left of the switch in the image. In cc4-tex, the definition was fixed to match the Doom1 definition; it's 64 units wide and light brown. To center the original switch you have to offset it. When you do that and play the map with cc4, you get the error in your image. I've seen it before. The author should have used SW1BRCOM instead of SW1BRN1 to avoid the problem.

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FractalXX said:

Nevander's suggestion made me rethink the map order since the difficulty is not in a perfect order.
I'll come up with one later on but feel free to suggest one if you have time.

I tried making my own listing ordered by difficulty after replaying everything: http://pastebin.com/mbD39jHg
Not suggesting to apply it as I'm not so fond of this order, but maybe it can be used for reflexion.
It's ordered by average difficulty rather than peak difficulty.
Close maps have close difficulties so it's okay to swap them around a little if it makes the reflexion easier.

Maybe I'm just used to it but overall I think the current order is mostly fine.
Only 2 maps felt really off to me when replaying:
- Crimson Castle (27), as previously mentionned, too short and easy that late in the game,
- Through & Around (10), a lot harder than the surrounding maps but also arguably the most hellish of the entire wad to me. That bit felt particularly wrong and that's why I'm not advocating ordering by difficulty alone, because even if the map was at the right position difficulty wise, the theme still wants to push it later to feel right IMO.

It's also interesting to note that most mappers seem to have set the difficulty of their map according to their slot number and theme. There's somewhat of an easy/tech block and a medium/hellish block visible in my listing.
There are some quirks, but I do think a hard map between easier ones (or vice versa) feels less out of place than a hellish map between tech ones of similar difficulty. Hell Keep is easy but has no other easy hellish map to go with, so I wouldn't place it at the beginning. Being huge also calls for having it later IMO.

Also, the hardest maps have no common theme.

Having said that I see 2 possible suggestions, that both aren't too different from now:

- a single progression that tries to blend easy to hard and tech to hellish together, making a lot of smooth transitions. So, a difficulty curve with ups and downs but growing overall.
http://pastebin.com/ibxswfTz
There are no big difficulty gaps, but as a result there's some Hell stuff before Tech is over, so I'm not a big fan of this method either.

- a 3 parts split with 1 theme each (episode style somewhat), going from the easiest to the hardest map in that theme. So 3 smooth growing sections, with a big drop at the end of each one.
1st theme being Tech, 3rd theme Hellish, and 2nd Misc (mostly Stone) with the rest.
http://pastebin.com/Jkffge0T
My favorite option. Also the closest from the current map order.

Also I like that players take the boat at the end of Sheev Wheej to go to Castle of Atlantis. :P

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Ok I went back and worked on "stiff" for a bit and I believe I fixed all the vertices that weren't on the 64 grid, but who knows, I might have missed them. I also added another secret and made the ending a little less bland by adding more to it. Now it has a little more guts to it.


I also finally came up with a name how about "Knee Deep in 64"? Since I based the map off of the Knee Deep in the Dead episode.

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Cyberia-Mix said:

I tried making my own listing ordered by difficulty after replaying everything: http://pastebin.com/mbD39jHg
Not suggesting to apply it as I'm not so fond of this order, but maybe it can be used for reflexion.
It's ordered by average difficulty rather than peak difficulty.
Close maps have close difficulties so it's okay to swap them around a little if it makes the reflexion easier.

Maybe I'm just used to it but overall I think the current order is mostly fine.
Only 2 maps felt really off to me when replaying:
- Crimson Castle (27), as previously mentionned, too short and easy that late in the game,
- Through & Around (10), a lot harder than the surrounding maps but also arguably the most hellish of the entire wad to me. That bit felt particularly wrong and that's why I'm not advocating ordering by difficulty alone, because even if the map was at the right position difficulty wise, the theme still wants to push it later to feel right IMO.

It's also interesting to note that most mappers seem to have set the difficulty of their map according to their slot number and theme. There's somewhat of an easy/tech block and a medium/hellish block visible in my listing.
There are some quirks, but I do think a hard map between easier ones (or vice versa) feels less out of place than a hellish map between tech ones of similar difficulty. Hell Keep is easy but has no other easy hellish map to go with, so I wouldn't place it at the beginning. Being huge also calls for having it later IMO.

Also, the hardest maps have no common theme.

Having said that I see 2 possible suggestions, that both aren't too different from now:

- a single progression that tries to blend easy to hard and tech to hellish together, making a lot of smooth transitions. So, a difficulty curve with ups and downs but growing overall.
http://pastebin.com/ibxswfTz
There are no big difficulty gaps, but as a result there's some Hell stuff before Tech is over, so I'm not a big fan of this method either.

- a 3 parts split with 1 theme each (episode style somewhat), going from the easiest to the hardest map in that theme. So 3 smooth growing sections, with a big drop at the end of each one.
1st theme being Tech, 3rd theme Hellish, and 2nd Misc (mostly Stone) with the rest.
http://pastebin.com/Jkffge0T
My favorite option. Also the closest from the current map order.

Also I like that players take the boat at the end of Sheev Wheej to go to Castle of Atlantis. :P


I'm liking the 3rd one. Seems perfect. Now, I just need to rearrange the maps (most annoying task ever in a project), and update them to their latest versions.
Thanks for the list, it really contributes to the quality of the project.

A new update is out.
I rearranged the maps, the list was originally created by Cyberia-mix, a minor change I made was to make Retrofit the first instead of Stiff.

I updated the maps for which I've found updates, I may missed some so feel free to notify me.

We need CWILV graphics for these slots:
MAP15: Sheev Wheej by Pinchy
MAP24: Temple of Despair by Martian Doomer
MAP25: Exit Wound by BeeWen

+ for the upcoming two maps for the free slots.

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FractalXX said:

We need CWILV graphics for these slots:
MAP15: Sheev Wheej by Pinchy
MAP24: Temple of Despair by Martian Doomer
MAP25: Exit Wound by BeeWen

I get those made here in a bit.

Here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/pzxrb83h4863w0k/64x64_CWILVxx_2.zip

They are not in the right order. Renaming them is required. Removed the map I didn't make, added the 3 above. All others are still in there.

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FractalXX said:

A new update is out.
I rearranged the maps, the list was originally created by Cyberia-mix, a minor change I made was to make Retrofit the first instead of Stiff.

Wow, thanks. Didn't think you would change the order so soon.
I mean, there are still 2 maps missing and no guarantee they'll fit well as maps 26-27.
And the listings I did were for discussions as I thought people would come up with other difficulty orders than mine.

Also Stiff was 1st of the listing as in "easiest tech map", not as actual suggestion for Map01. I agree with choosing Retrofit. The difficulties are not too far apart (besides other reasons mentionned in earlier posts).

However I think Stiff was then best as Map02 rather than swapped to 04.
In my listing, "Stiff > Pillar64 > Overgrowth > Retrofit" was a raw difficulty order. But since the difficulties are close, I would also sort by map scale, as I think it's natural to go from fast/short to longer/larger maps.
Pillar64 is significantly larger than the other 3 and would go after them IMO (possibly after Europa Facilty as well if people find it easier than I do).
Consequently, "Retrofit > Stiff > Overgrowth > Pillar64" would have been my final choice. No big deal anyway.
Sorry for not mentionning that in the previous post (then again I wasn't expecting the listing to be immediately applied lol).

Similarly, I might swap Trials of Iniquity and Blood Cathedral, because even though I think ToI is slightly easier, it's also much more massive, and transitions better with the following maps which are also large.

Other than that, I put Survive! in Tech (main theme, catchy song, transition with the "Stone" levels) but other people might find it more suited in Hellish.
And Careless Infection looks even more weird late in the wad now lol. I think it's at the right place if it has to be in, but since Gustavo6046 said he doesn't mind I'm still in favor of removing it.



Things I found in the wad:
- after downloading Overgrowth separately I saw its latest version was actually never in the wad
- Sheev Wheej also isn't the latest version
- still wrong sky in Old Town :p (sky1 please)


Tactical Stiffy said:

Ok I went back and worked on "stiff" for a bit and I believe I fixed all the vertices that weren't on the 64 grid, but who knows, I might have missed them. I also added another secret and made the ending a little less bland by adding more to it. Now it has a little more guts to it.


I also finally came up with a name how about "Knee Deep in 64"? Since I based the map off of the Knee Deep in the Dead episode.

I think the map was nice as is already but more doesn't hurt. :)
The name is nice too. I like that you only used monsters from E1. Wish you did with textures too. ;)

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Cyberia-Mix said:

Wow, thanks. Didn't think you would change the order so soon.
I mean, there are still 2 maps missing and no guarantee they'll fit well as maps 26-27.
And the listings I did were for discussions as I thought people would come up with other difficulty orders than mine.

Also Stiff was 1st of the listing as in "easiest tech map", not as actual suggestion for Map01. I agree with choosing Retrofit. The difficulties are not too far apart (besides other reasons mentionned in earlier posts).

However I think Stiff was then best as Map02 rather than swapped to 04.
In my listing, "Stiff > Pillar64 > Overgrowth > Retrofit" was a raw difficulty order. But since the difficulties are close, I would also sort by map scale, as I think it's natural to go from fast/short to longer/larger maps.
Pillar64 is significantly larger than the other 3 and would go after them IMO (possibly after Europa Facilty as well if people find it easier than I do).
Consequently, "Retrofit > Stiff > Overgrowth > Pillar64" would have been my final choice. No big deal anyway.
Sorry for not mentionning that in the previous post (then again I wasn't expecting the listing to be immediately applied lol).

Similarly, I might swap Trials of Iniquity and Blood Cathedral, because even though I think ToI is slightly easier, it's also much more massive, and transitions better with the following maps which are also large.

Other than that, I put Survive! in Tech (main theme, catchy song, transition with the "Stone" levels) but other people might find it more suited in Hellish.
And Careless Infection looks even more weird late in the wad now lol. I think it's at the right place if it has to be in, but since Gustavo6046 said he doesn't mind I'm still in favor of removing it.



Things I found in the wad:
- after downloading Overgrowth separately I saw its latest version was actually never in the wad
- Sheev Wheej also isn't the latest version
- still wrong sky in Old Town :p (sky1 please)



I think the map was nice as is already but more doesn't hurt. :)
The name is nice too. I like that you only used monsters from E1. Wish you did with textures too. ;)


I'm not entirely sure about Careless Infection, it's kinda a crossover from all themes, so it's a little bit weird but due to this, it fits everywhere (I guess).

I'll update as much maps as I can, thanks for the notification. That's why I asked you all to see if your maps are the latest versions.

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The latest build has a problem in level 6. Yellow key needs to be available, but the sector tag 35 nowhere has no reference to action. Ask the author to fix this error.

Started to build 26.

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BeeWen said:

The latest build has a problem in level 6. Yellow key needs to be available, but the sector tag 35 nowhere has no reference to action. Ask the author to fix this error.

Started to build 26.


It's mine but I couldn't reproduce this, yet. I'll look into it.

MAP26 claimed.

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BeeWen said:

Must be complex in size or number of monsters?

Demo map 06.

https://yadi.sk/d/PlZj47jdyR9sc


Not necessarily, instead, it should be quite long and difficult.
I'll look into it later when I have time.

Saint_Guy said:

Hi, I would like to grab the last empty map slot.

I've started to work on a hell themed map, but I'm not sure how difficult, difficult should be. Hopefully my map meets the requirements

first version of the map.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/37yln2u8ojijbwn/64%20ways%202%20die.wad?dl=0


Claimed. I'll look into it tonight.

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So I was playing through one of the early demos, I've been enjoying the maps so far. And I was thinking Castle of Atlantis (MAP15 in original demo) might be one of the best slaughter maps I've ever played, no joke. There's well executed encounters, enough cover to avoid rev rockets, enough rockets to deal with all the enemies in the map and just enough plasma where you aren't spamming the BFG through a massive unwanted orgy. I really loved it. Best in the map so far.

Then I got to the secret maps. The first one being trouble on the bridge and I felt it was just eh, it's really short and not that memorable.

Then I got to the Dinosaur foot, a level I was anticipating for a while. And I really really really... hated it. This is where the people that hate slaughter maps have a point. First off on Zdoom compatibility, the projectiles don't go through the firesticks, so the rocket is highly ineffective in the whole map on Zdoom Compatibility. Also the horrifically placed pain elementals trap you with the spammed lost souls too much. I couldn't really do anything, so I thought maybe this would be easier on Boom compatibility. The rocket launcher was actually useful now, as I was able to clear the imps without much of a problem. The pain elementals are now useless (at least for now). But then I found and invincibility, and BFG spammed as many revenants as I could. Once the invincibility wore out, there were still a shit ton of revs alive, and no cover to block the projectiles. THIS map is broken dude I don't think this should be accepted at all. Nobody wants to play a nuts JR map in a wad. Yeah you could argue that it's a secret map, you don't have to play it, but that's not the point. If you are playing through the wad not knowing that this map was going to happen, it can discourage a lot of players from playing the rest of the Wad, when they've worked their way to find the secret levels. Yes I've seen that people have beaten it, it's not impossible, but it's not fun, it's BFG spam, and entirely inconsistent as the map can be broken depending on the compatibility that it's on. Rant over. Please consider either making a new map or dumbing the difficulty way the fuck down please!

Also I played the latest release version and still have the same complaints. Doesn't seem to be any different.

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Tactical Stiffy said:

So I was playing through one of the early demos, I've been enjoying the maps so far. And I was thinking Castle of Atlantis (MAP15 in original demo) might be one of the best slaughter maps I've ever played no joke. There's well executed encounters, enough cover to avoid rev rockets, enough rockets to deal with all the enemies on the wad and just enough plasma where you aren't spamming the BFG through a massive unwanted orgy. I really loved it. Best in the map so far.

Then I got to the secret maps. The first one being trouble on the bridge and I felt it was just eh, it's really short and not that memorable.

Then I got to the Dinosaur foot, a level I was anticipating for a while. And I really really really... hated it. This is where the people that hate slaughter maps have a point. First off on Zdoom compatibility, the projectiles don't go through the firesticks, so the rocket is highly ineffective in the whole map on Zdoom Compatibility. Also the horrifically placed pain elementals trap you with the spammed lost souls too much. I couldn't really do anything, so I thought maybe this would be easier on Boom compatibility. The rocket launcher was actually useful now I was able to clear the imps without much of a problem. The pain elementals are now useless (at least for now). But then I found and invincibility and BFG spammed as many revenants as I could. Once the invincibility wore out, there were still a shit ton of revs alive and no cover to block the projectiles. THIS map is broken dude I don't think this should be accepted at all. Nobody wants to play a nuts JR map in a wad. Yeah you could argue that it's a secret map, you don't have to play it, but that's not the point. If you are playing through the wad not knowing that this map was going to happen, it can discourage a lot of players from playing the rest of the Wad when they've worked their way to find the secret levels. Yes I've seen that people have beaten it, it's not impossible, but it's not fun, it's BFG spam, and entirely inconsistent as the map can be broken depending on the compatibility that it's on. Rant over. Please consider either making a new map or dumbing the difficulty way the fuck down please!


If you play it on ZDoom, if you go to compatibility options and change "Use Doom heights for missile clipping," you would be able to shoot through obstacles, like trees, statues, and so on.

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mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

If you play it on ZDoom, if you go to compatibility options and change "Use Doom heights for missile clipping," you would be able to shoot through obstacles, like trees, statues, and so on.


I shouldn't have to change compatibility to play a map period, honestly.

I'm not trying to be mean, it's just not a map that should be submitted to a community project, as it is only suited for a small demographic of doom players. I was just angry and needed to complain. I'm so heated from it that I quit playing the rest of the maps. God I need a Xanax.

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Tactical Stiffy said:

I will beat it though regardless. I just need a break.

It does take a little bit of time to get used to the scheme. After all, if you went to the Slaughterfest 3 thread and downloaded the file that was in the thread, you will notice that one of the secret levels (level 33 specifically, "Three Lines") follows the same scheme as my Dinosaur Foot level. The difference is that level is red and is triangular-shaped while my Dinosaur Foot level is shaped like a Dinosaur Foot (hence the name of the level). If you have played "Three Lines" and hated my Dinosaur Foot level, you are going to hate "Three Lines" just as much, if not, more. The level was still accepted in the community project, despite how much flak the person may receive for submitting it. I have a feeling that you aren't going to buy that, though.

Slaughterfest 3 Thread: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/62773-slaughterfest-3-formerly-sf13/

Slaughterfest 3 file: http://www.mediafire.com/file/5se1g4ai59q1dfk/sf3_b5b.wad.zip

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mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

It does take a little bit of time to get used to the scheme. After all, if you went to the Slaughterfest 3 thread and downloaded the file that was in the thread, you will notice that one of the secret levels (level 33 specifically, "Three Lines") follows the same scheme as my Dinosaur Foot level. The difference is that level is red and is triangular-shaped while my Dinosaur Foot level is shaped like a Dinosaur Foot (hence the name of the level). If you have played "Three Lines" and hated my Dinosaur Foot level, you are going to hate "Three Lines" just as much, if not, more. The level was still accepted in the community project, despite how much flak the person may receive for submitting it. I have a feeling that you aren't going to buy that, though.

Slaughterfest 3 Thread: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/62773-slaughterfest-3-formerly-sf13/

Slaughterfest 3 file: http://www.mediafire.com/file/5se1g4ai59q1dfk/sf3_b5b.wad.zip


This isn't slaughterfest 3 though. Your map is way too conflicting with every other map in the wad so far. I guess this map sliding into a MAP33 slot would be fair to who ever wants to try it, but it's not fun at all. Once again Castle of Atlantis is how you make a slaughter map. This is just BFG spam galore.

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Tactical Stiffy said:

This isn't slaughterfest 3 though. Your map is way too conflicting with every other map in the wad so far. I guess this map sliding into a MAP33 slot would be fair to who ever wants to try it, but it's not fun at all. Once again Castle of Atlantis is how you make a slaughter map. This is just BFG spam galore.

If you would want to suggest moving my Dinosaur Foot level into the level 33 slot, I don't have an issue with that. If you looked at levels like "The Show Must Go On," you would probably hate that too because you get a BFG at the beginning of the level and you would spend a long time firing the weapon into a horde of enemies (and it's significantly more difficult than my Dinosaur Foot level). If FractalXX wants to add an extra level slot, I wouldn't have an issue with that. I'm pretty sure he stated that any level will be accepted into the project, as long as it is Boom-compatible and vertices are lined up along the 64-grid. You may not agree with what I am saying but I am telling you the way the project is.

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mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

If you would want to suggest moving my Dinosaur Foot level into the level 33 slot, I don't have an issue with that. If you looked at levels like "The Show Must Go On," you would probably hate that too because you get a BFG at the beginning of the level and you would spend a long time firing the weapon into a horde of enemies (and it's significantly more difficult than my Dinosaur Foot level). If FractalXX wants to add an extra level slot, I wouldn't have an issue with that. I'm pretty sure he stated that any level will be accepted into the project, as long as it is Boom-compatible and vertices are lined up along the 64-grid. You may not agree with what I am saying but I am telling you the way the project is.


Never mind. I'll keep trucking.

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Alright so I finally beat it Jesus tap dancing christ, man. I never played a map like this before so I might of overreacted a bit, sorry. It was better once I got something to eat. The beginning is very overwhelming for me but I got through. I also decided to stick with zdoom compatibility this time as well. Because fuck those revanant missiles. The lost souls were still annoying though because just when you think they are all dead all the sudden you got two lost souls munching on each ass cheek. I'm glad to have finally beaten it, not without a lot of save states mind you. I'm still not a huge fan of this type of slaughter map especially the three lines, I tried that and was like yeah no thanks. But in the end I've learned to respect it anyway.

P.S: I hate you for making it a death exit. Punish us with a tough map and take our nice full rockets and plasma? That is sadistic.

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So 26 ready. The game it contains a number of surprises available for the careful player. Good luck finding the secrets will help you to open the entire map. Nice game.

The name of the level music tracks, "Bladerunner".

Screens:

Spoiler



Downloads:

https://yadi.sk/d/8t_s_uANz4NhH

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I've put the new maps in, I'll upload it later.
I've also found some typos in DEHACKED, it had some maps on the old slots... SMH
Again, some CWILV graphics weren't in the right place, my bad.

BeeWen said:

So 26 ready. The game it contains a number of surprises available for the careful player. Good luck finding the secrets will help you to open the entire map. Nice game.

The name of the level music tracks, "Bladerunner".

Screens:

Downloads:

https://yadi.sk/d/8t_s_uANz4NhH


Is the maps' name also Bladerunner, or is it only the music?

I also have an idea to replace Trouble on the bridge, since some of you've pointed out that it doesn't fit here.
What about a map done on the 128px grid? Only, if someone is willing to do it, but I might do it as well, if noone wants.
Just an idea, yet.

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