I just learned that Sgt. Mark IV has a Patreon.

For only $2.00 a day, you can help support a starving Brazilian artist. I don't know if that's true. He's probably not starving. Brutal Doom is pretty kickass and he did an amazing job on BD64. I think I'll give him $2.00 a month. Maybe I'll kick the dew habit and start drinking water - it's better for me any way.

Go check it out.

https://www.patreon.com/sgtmarkiv

He's not expecting too much. $500 a month and he'll treat Doom like a full time job. What would we see from him if he was working that hard on Doom. This is kind of historical in some senses.

I know that SM4 has his haters and they truly believe he deserves it. This post is obviously not for you.

What do you guys think of this? Isn't Doom a grand game?

I imagine some will probably find it inappropriate to ask for donations in a community that's revolved around unpaid hobby productions for so long, but honestly it's really cool that hobbyists and their fans can do this sort of thing nowadays to support their work.

Modding Doom for moneys sounds like living the dream. And with a popular person like Mark there is actually a big chance for it to work.

everennui said:

He's not expecting too much. $500 a month and he'll treat Doom like a full time job. What would we see from him if he was working that hard on Doom. This is kind of historical in some senses.

Mmmm getting paid for stealing other people's work. Very historical. Can't he just work as middle management?

dew said:

Mmmm getting paid for stealing other people's work. Very historical. Can't he just work as middle management?

What did he steal?

Smiv has had a loooooooooooooong history of using resources without any sort of permission or credit, especially involving anything Brutal.

And even now, just ripping sprites from Blood outright, and took all the maps from a ZDoom conversion of maps taken from Absolution TC (yikes that's confusing to write).

If he ends up being successful in this, I really hope from now on he makes original content he himself makes and borrows nothing from others (except when permitted from the original authors)
I've no problems with him or other modders going this route, it sounds great (and I'm hoping has absolutely no legal repercussions)

wheresthebeef said:

(and I'm hoping has absolutely no legal repercussions)

It may actually have. After all, Brutal Doom 64 has taken fan-made conversions of levels and textures from a commercial product, and somehow trying to make money off that can bring the lawyers onto you quite rapidly.

Of course, if he was smart he could point out that nobody ever did anything about The Absolution and later the GZDoom port of that in the first place, so he could cite precedent. Then again, these projects did not try to monetize their effort.

(And it makes me wonder: Should I try something like that, too...? ;))

esselfortium said:

I imagine some will probably find it inappropriate to ask for donations in a community that's revolved around unpaid hobby productions for so long, but honestly it's really cool that hobbyists and their fans can do this sort of thing nowadays to support their work.

People seem to give to Youtubers just fine. I have seen quite a few game developers and mainly pixel artists have Patreon. Seems like the pixel artists make more than the game developers.

Also while I'm here and the topic is about Mark IV... why do people hate him so much? I don't want to turn the thread into a cesspool but people seem to joke about him being hated, I just have yet to hear a reason why. After mulling through the thread maybe its because Mark and Brutal Doom steal from other mods?

wheresthebeef said:

If he ends up being successful in this, I really hope from now on he makes original content he himself makes and borrows nothing from others (except when permitted from the original authors)
I've no problems with him or other modders going this route, it sounds great (and I'm hoping has absolutely no legal repercussions)

The idea is solid and I support it. Artists always struggled with securing their existence while chasing their dreams and they always relied on benefactors and patrons.

And I'm even fine with the good old "the artist took our money and didn't deliver", that's inbuilt to the entire system. You're not ordering a product, you're putting money toward's the artist's vision. I like your mockup/draft/whatever, here's a twenty, buy a warm dinner and all the professional tools you need for it. Oh, I don't like what your baby has (not) become and I won't support you anymore, good day, sir.

But when you start taking people's money, you also accept certain responsibility, imo. Is it still okay to reap the benefits of an open, sharing community like Doom has? Can you, without guilt or remorse, exploit the hard work that texture and sprite artists, musicians, source coders and many others do for free? Perhaps the law allows it, I dunno, but isn't it just a little bit on the scummy side? Not to mention ripping commercial assets and leeching off trademarked brands certainly means a C&D from any involved side can shut Mark's patreon instantly, leaving the patrons high and dry.

Edward850 said:

And even now, just ripping sprites from Blood outright

I've seen multiple Doom projects using sprites and assets from Build games, particularly textures from Duke3D. Never seemed to cause problems before.

rileymartin said:

I've seen multiple Doom projects using sprites and assets from Build games, particularly textures from Duke3D. Never seemed to cause problems before.

Well uh Eternal Doom uses tons of Raven assets but team eternal never tried to leverage it to make a living except for perhaps their portfolios

rileymartin said:

I've seen multiple Doom projects using sprites and assets from Build games, particularly textures from Duke3D. Never seemed to cause problems before.

Trump Doom has Duke stuff. Perhaps its the fame Mark and Brutal Doom get while using someone else's assets. Its about as mainstream as a 20 year old game with sequels every 10 years will get.

If he's not giving credit he should, but then again who looks in the credits? He will continue to get all the praise for tying it all together like if he baked a gore blood cake without crediting who made the ingredients.

Graf Zahl said:

(And it makes me wonder: Should I try something like that, too...? ;))

Yes.

Well, credits are there already on the TITLEMAP(title screen), you just have to wait for it to change.
I see no problem expect that credits are not completed.

Zapzop said:

Well, credits are there already on the TITLEMAP(title screen), you just have to wait for it to change.
I see no problem expect that credits are not completed.

What do you notice isn't credited? Maybe it'd be helpful to make a list.

I think it would be cool if people support him as a modder, but to be paid for directly making doom content would indeed be illegal. It matters how he words it.

LOL people paying for brutal Doom updates. I already know that people waste money on stupid shit, but this is just ridiculous.

gaspe said:

LOL people paying for brutal Doom updates. I already know that people waste money on stupid shit, but this is just ridiculous.

Umm... If you don't like Brutal Doom, that doesn't mean everyone are same as you. Like I said in Zenimax threatens DoomRL thread, people only pay(donate) if they want to.

I despise Brutal Doom. Then again, at this point it's likely Mark has generated hundreds of thousand dollars worth of marketing for the Doom brand. Can't hate the guy too much for trying to monetize this success, especially when he's asking for peanuts.

Sgt Mark just needs a solid mod team like the size of ID back in its day, maybe a few talented artists, a solid writer, and some animators and he'll be good. I'd personally be willing to create doom cgi cutscenes if interested hmu.

gaspe said:

LOL people paying for brutal Doom updates. I already know that people waste money on stupid shit, but this is just ridiculous.

I'd donate to Brutal Doom (and Oblig)e, but I wouldn't pay monthly for them. Right now it seems to be you chip in to get Brutal Wolf Doom. People are free to spend their money how they want.

While I'm here venting about Patreon I might as well bring up I've grown to hate Patreon thank yous at the end of each Youtube videos. I spent money on Youtube Red so I don't have to sit through ads that that I can skip after 3 seconds. Now the thank yous take 2 - 3 minute of each video (depending who it is). At least they're at the end right? .... some people have them at the start! Some have 3 Patreons for different projects.

What's next, Brutal Doom 3?

Haha, no. I have my own expenses and needs to worry about. And for other obvious reasons.

MetroidJunkie said:

What's next, Brutal Doom 3?

Yes please. Suddenly everyone would love Doom 3.

MetroidJunkie said:

What's next, Brutal Doom 3?

Not a bad idea, actually. Unlike the original Doom where the gunplay was more open to interpretation, Doom 3's gunplay is more defined, and as such, the gunplay is rather lacking, especially with Doom 2016 as a comparison.

gaspe said:

LOL people paying for brutal Doom updates. I already know that people waste money on stupid shit, but this is just ridiculous.

You know what they say, "a fool and his money are easily parted"

rileymartin said:

I've seen multiple Doom projects using sprites and assets from Build games, particularly textures from Duke3D. Never seemed to cause problems before.

These aren't the same people asking for money to continue making maps that use these resources.

"Having a Patreon in no way means that I am charging money from my mods by any way. They are all free, and will always be."

He promised that, so I think people should treat this more as a donation to a hobbyist than a subscription to a mod creator to get access to the mods.

Then there would be no drama, too.