makeing a ghost

i know that any monster that leavs a corpse and that is given a second chance by the archvile will become a ghost if it was first crushed. however what about lost souls and pain elementals? well i have done it before. here is how. map10 in doom2 i killed a lost soul as a door shut, this made the blood pool. a archvile brought it back. saddly for the lost sould, once it took off it was gone.
i modified the baddies in deth to do this.
note i dont know if this works with a slower crusher( if the lost sould is killed by crushing) i have done it in fast moving crushers and doors.
this works in doom2 v1.9 and zdoom( it should in other ports i guess)

Uh, I haven't even seen a ghost yet.

KoolKat said:

Uh, I haven't even seen a ghost yet.

Are you using a source port that "fixes" this "bug"? There are quite a few maps that make deliberate use of this bug. From memory:
Icarus Map 24 (this map even has some wall textures giving "instructions" on how to kill ghosts)
Eternal Map 25 (though if you're careful you can avoid the cacos becoming ghosts by killing them in the right places; the map provides a warning about this)
Waterfront (Wtrfront.wad - one of the first to make deliberate use of the bug)
...and others.

Doom2.exe (obviously) supports ghosts, and in PrBoom you can turn the "bug" on or off, and jDoom seems to retain the "bug". In Zdoom and Legacy, AFAIK the bug is "fixed" and you don't have the option of turning it back on. (If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will step in and say so...)

BTW, I don't recall ever seeing a ghost lost soul. I vaguely recall someone somewhere mentioning a ghost pain elemental though.

I use ZDoom, Edge, Legacy now but used to use doom2.exe.

Waitaminute, I don't even see how it's possible for a Lost Soul or Pain Elemental to be turned into a ghost. They don't leave corpses, so there's nothing to be crushed and/or resurrected. Do you need to crush them while the death animation is playing? That's the only explanation I can think of, and it's gotta be near impossible even when you're trying. The animation lasts less than a second, you've gotta have REALLY good timing I guess.

Need screenies :D

(Do any of you guys recognize me?)

Yeah, I always leave the archvile ghost "feature" turned on in my PrBoom settings, it seems kinda stupid to turn it off when it can be used as a special effect. That's what I like about PrBoom, most of the changes are customizable (like not having those transluscent fireballs that I despise.) But I've never actually SEEN a ghost that I recall. I have read somewhere, though, that pain elementals can be resurected by the archvile. I think what happens is that they DO leave a corpse, it's just not visible.

Draconio said:

I think what happens is that they DO leave a corpse, it's just not visible.

Checking the dehacked frame table, the last frame of the Pain Elemental's death sequence (Frame 719) plays for 8 tics and then moves on to frame 0 - removing the item from the game. A similar set up exists for other items that disappear during play (eg plasma bullets).

To get a PE ghost, I suppose you have to trap it under something right at the point of death - after the death code pointer has been used, but before the death sequence moves on to frame 0. A pretty short window, but possible I guess. Then I presume the PE body will be converted to a blood pool that the Archie can raise as a ghost.

I've had this happen to me once. I was playing AV map19, near the end, and killed a PE just as a door was closing above it. The normal PE death frames played but there was a blood pool on the floor, and then Archie came along and resurrected it. Result: ghost PE. They're not easy to kill!

I don't think you can get ghost Lost Souls though, as explained in this thread. (Summary: Lost Souls don't have respawn frames)

Ryback said:

Result: ghost PE. They're not easy to kill!

Yes, it is was your text file where I read about a ghost PE. Otherwise I would have presumed it to be impossible.

it is very difficult to do. so i will explain

if u shoot a lost sould, under a closeing door and it dies, it will be crushed. it then leaves a blood pool. yes it is a narrow window of possibility. i have crushed lost souls a few times and i have seen a archvile rasie only 2.

No, you must be mistaken. It is impossible for there to be a ghost lost soul due to an archvile resurrection, because Lost Souls do not have resurrection frames. The archvile resurrection code explicitly checks to see if the resurrection frame is NULL, and if so, it doesn't even try.

You would have to have been either (1) playing some kind of source port that adds Lost Soul resurrection frames as a "feature," or (2) using some kind of DeHackEd patch that accomplishes the same thing in an otherwise normal port.

I can show you the line of code if you wish.

Quasar said:

No, you must be mistaken. It is impossible for there to be a ghost lost soul due to an archvile resurrection, because Lost Souls do not have resurrection frames.

That's pretty much what I thought. I also pretty much assumed the PE having respawn frames was probably a mistake, or maybe a throwback to id at one time, during doom2 developement, considering it leaving a body lying around. Anyway, seeing as how I feel the PE respawn frames are not really supposed to be used, setting the PE's respawn frames to 0 allows you to free up a few useful frames that can be used in dehacked without having any real impact on the game.

Play Zdaemon Tons Of Fucking Ghosts in That Mug.

[LC]L33T0R said:
Play Zdaemon Tons Of Fucking Ghosts in That Mug.

Bye.

[LC]L33T0R said:
Play Zdaemon Tons Of Fucking Ghosts in That Mug.

Julian said:

Bye.

You know, Jul, what he said is so true...

KoolKat said:

Uh, I haven't even seen a ghost yet.

1337.wad map24. (prboom, everything in compatibility set to yes)

if you wait long enough, you'll get heaps of ghosts attacking you.

Heh, give Cyberdemons and Spidermasterminds respawn frames and set them up to be become ghosts. They'd be completely invincible.

Here's a classic wad and lmp showing 'ghosts' if you haven't seen 'em.

Welcome back mac

magikal said:

Here's a classic wad and lmp showing 'ghosts' if you haven't seen 'em.

hiya magical u rember me

sailor moon said:

hiya magical u rember me

Hey Sailor Moon how could I forget you!?

I've only seen ghosts once. in MAP20 of Doom2, there was a imp or a sargecorpse crushed by that first door you enter at the beginning of the level. The AV came along, opened the door and revived it. I remember jumping dawn into the blood lake, only having the monster chase me. if I recall, the only way to kill one is to fire a rocket near the wall.

Gokuma said:

Heh, give Cyberdemons and Spidermasterminds respawn frames and set them up to be become ghosts. They'd be completely invincible.

Heheheh I never thought of that. Eternity has a mapthing flag "BOSS" that makes things roar loud and be invincible to blast radius, so by using that, you could make ANY creature be invincible as a ghost -- a scary thought. Of course it'll roar loud too, so that would be a downside :->

HEY I KNOW YOU MaCvILeWhOrE!!!
WELCOME BACK!!

Quasar said:

Of course it'll roar loud too, so that would be a downside :->

heh, roaring imps =P

that would be loud.

The $64,000 question:

Do ghost pain elementals make ghost lost souls?

The answer: no they don't.

That link takes you to a demo wad I quickly hacked together to show PE ghosts are possible. (Regular Doom2 only) Put it in your doom2 directory, unzip, and run peghost.bat. I'm pretty sure the non-ghost-ness of lost souls is evident. In any case, it'd be impossible for the ghost bug to be triggered in this fashion.

Strangely enough while a fast crusher will create a PE ghost, slow crushers don't. I guess the corpse has to be compressed enough while it's still exploding, so that it turns into a flattened GIB before being removed from the map.

Ryback, geocities isn't letting me download... what you can do is make a page with a link to the zip instead. That should work.