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Memfis

Wikipedia calls Freedoom a game, is that correct?

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You can play it, right?
And you can play it without requiring any other resource, aside from an executable, right?

Sounds like a game to me...

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The fact that Freedoom has completely new levels is what makes it a game in its own right and not just a "reskin".

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It's about the same level of being a "Game" as Doom II, Plutonia, TNT, Chex, etc.

It adds all new monsters, textures, weapons, levels, etc. while just using the same engine as Doom.

VIDEO GAME: a game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a television screen or other display screen.


Sounds a lot like Freedoom. Just because it wasn't made by a big company or something doesn't change that.

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Freedoom = Game

I understand what you're saying is that it doesn't come bundled with an executable, thus your question. Technically it does come with an executable, just that it's upto the user's choice on which one to use (gotta keep the download small as possible, right?):
-Odamex
-PrBoom-Plus
Why mash those two right in there and confuse new users on what to launch? Freedoom doesn't need a custom-made executable for it to run. Plus, only the IWADs are downloaded via json for special purposes.
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I think it feels weird because obviously (?) you wouldn't call e.g. DOOM2.WAD a game. It's only a resource that becomes a game when coupled together with the engine and everything. I guess the definition is kind of loose... Is something like Hell 2 Pay a game too then? I don't remember if it replaces everything but almost all resources are definitely new I think.

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I guess Super Mario Bros and The Legend of Zelda and Mega Man and Metroid aren't games either. I mean, they're just a bunch of data held in a cartridge that doesn't form a game unless you shove 'em into an NES.

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I'd call DOOM2.wad a game, because you have to pay for it to use it or acquire it legally, it contains all the data you need to play it, and just needs an .exe to run. It's not really that loose of a concept.

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Memfis said:

Is something like Hell 2 Pay a game too then? I don't remember if it replaces everything but almost all resources are definitely new I think.

You need either DOOM2.WAD or freedoom2.wad to be able to play HtP or HacX for example. Hence, these two are total conversions. However you don't need DOOM2.WAD or anything else to play freedoom2.wad.

There's a reason why a game engine and the data are separated. You will need very different binaries to play the same DOOM2.WAD on DOS, Windows, Mac or Linux, but I guess no one is going to argue that each of the above platforms offers an entirely different "game" with the same WAD. Even though differences between ports are almost inevitable, it would be unreasonable to attach more significance to them than to differences between DOS Doom v1.2 and Doom v1.9 for example.

On a side note, a while ago I had a similar discussion at MobyGames:
http://www.mobygames.com/forums/dga,2/dgb,4/dgm,211622/vm,2/

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Um, sorry for upping this thread - but I'd like to ask something, since I had a long discussion with my friend about Freedoom (and this thread corresponds to my question for 90%, at least :)).
The question is: why Freedoom isn't being considered as a TC? It requires exactly Doom's engine (or id tech 1, depending on which engine's name someone else might prefer), not the other one - and also changes doom/doom2.wad's resources along (not in doom/doom2.wad themselves, to note it...)

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Sick Bow said:

I'd call DOOM2.wad a game, because you have to pay for it to use it or acquire it legally, it contains all the data you need to play it, and just needs an .exe to run. It's not really that loose of a concept.


So by saying that you have to pay for it you're ruling out the millions of free games and/or defining them as not games.

Personally, to define a game, all that's needed is the ability to play it to receive entertainment - the installation process (be it downloading on steam, installing from CD or locating a source port) is irrelevant.

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MrFlibble said:

You need either DOOM2.WAD or freedoom2.wad to be able to play HtP or HacX for example.


Actually, HacX is an IWAD now, so it's a game too. It's also a game in the sense that started this topic, if you look on the iOS app store.

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[LeD]Jake Crusher said:

Stuff

Because its an IWAD, not a PWAD. Meaning it does not require the usage of doom2.wad/doom.wad, hence it is an independent game. It justdoesnt come bundled with specific exe.

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Dragonfly said:

So by saying that you have to pay for it you're ruling out the millions of free games and/or defining them as not games.

Personally, to define a game, all that's needed is the ability to play it to receive entertainment - the installation process (be it downloading on steam, installing from CD or locating a source port) is irrelevant.


I didn't mean there aren't other ways to define a game, but paying for it does help the case in my opinion.

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It's its own game, just like Doom(.wad), Doom 2(.wad), Plutonia(.wad) and TNT(.wad) are different games. These are part of the same game franchise.

Hacx(.wad) is also a different game.

FreeDoom1(.wad) and FreeDoom2(.wad) are both different game, but they are in another world than Doom, just like Hacx.

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