doom needs more lore

John Carmack fucked DOOM history as the game itself, still good but would be better, in the alphas we can see, the game will surely looked superior (if were finished in that way).

Like the Souls games, for me, less lore means more. Let the community and the players make up a lot of the story as they go,and focus more on the gameplay.

Sallan said:

John Carmack fucked DOOM history as the game itself, still good but would be better, in the alphas we can see, the game will surely looked superior (if were finished in that way).

I thoroughly disagree. Visually the alphas have some cool stuff that didn't make it to the final game, but if Hall had his way, Doom would be like any other "not too bad" game from the old days rather than the shining beacon of FPS purity that I personally see it as.

Sallan said:

John Carmack fucked DOOM history as the game itself, still good but would be better, in the alphas we can see, the game will surely looked superior (if were finished in that way).

Ehh, you have a game here which couldn't possibly have been more successful than it was and yet you choose to say that nah, they made some bad decisions.

And you get this insight from where exactly?

Original Doom would've benefited from simple cutscenes and maybe more flavor text. Modern Doom has too much lore,even with the 2016 creators saying they made game-play a first priority. They used the same trope as Wolfenstein and Doom 3 with human antagonists and motivations.

Sallan said:

John Carmack fucked DOOM history as the game itself, still good but would be better, in the alphas we can see, the game will surely looked superior (if were finished in that way).

I can see your point, as it kinda seems like Doom is basically Wolf 3D with more stuff... ish. Lets not forget what id Software was like back then: wild teenagers who loved metal music, movies like Aliens, Dungeons and Dragons etc. Doom was their brainchild from all the influences of their interests. I doubt they were very serious about such matters, probably just wanted a game where they have fun. In fact they made these games because it's the games they always wanted to play. Apparently the world also wanted games like these. They usually took a basic idea most of the time and went with it. Most games are played by teenagers so i suppose this was an advantage to them, since they were teenagers themselves meaning what they want chances are what others want too.

But if they were say mature teenagers/adults, they might have gone for Hall's approach, as it would define themselves in a way: calm, rational, mature. It would've have been a good game I guess, but what woukd we get? A Halo like game? A game that would be fun to play through once, then leaving it on your shelf to collect dust? Most games with heavily scripted sequences, like how the Alpha was kinda being shown to be, tend to be not memorable over the ages. IMHO. I've played many FPS games with a SP mode that's always scripted/linear-ish. It was fun to play once, but after finishing it, do you really feel like playing it all over again, knowing how things will happen? At least replaying it while truly enjoying it? I don't think so. The Doom we have now is deviously simple. Everything's a surprise in game, every time. Sure, you know there's an enemy here or what do over there, but how do you do it? That's one thing that makes it more fun: variety.

Like I said before, Doom is pretty simple. It's like a chessboard. There are generic items. It's how you use said items to make things happen, that makes Doom fun. Meatshields, sprinting, circlestrafing, infighting etc all contribute to this, making each experience feel different from all the rest. Compare two demos of one maps played by two people. You'll see how both take different approaches both major and minor.


Forgive me if i was spouting out bullshit here.

TL;DR
Doom is fun for it's simplicity. This makes it possible to achieve various compex situations. If it was as complex as the Alphas, it wouldn't have lasted so long till this day, at least not like Doom is now. I'm always surprised to see such a talented and active community for a 23 year old game.

It always seemed to me like Hall essentially wanted to make Half-Life, though about 5 years too early it seems.

I'm glad they didn't delay the original game in order to insert a more fleshed out story.

I remember the rationalising of the Soul Sphere in the first Doom book to be one of the most cringeworthy literary moments ever...

I fail to see what is better about the alpha versions of the game.

Doomkid said:

I thoroughly disagree. Visually the alphas have some cool stuff that didn't make it to the final game, but if Hall had his way, Doom would be like any other "not too bad" game from the old days rather than the shining beacon of FPS purity that I personally see it as.

It could have a chance of doom been a cult game, even if fallen in the underground world, but i can see the potential of doom have a awesome history with just one guy (correct this number if wrong)in this work and a not much experienced team in the time must be really impossible.

RUSH said:

I fail to see what is better about the alpha versions of the game.

Co-Op, and the HUD in the first alpha it's much more athmospheric

RightField said:

Ehh, you have a game here which couldn't possibly have been more successful than it was and yet you choose to say that nah, they made some bad decisions.

And you get this insight from where exactly?

All type of game has the potential of being better, since the developers are humans and humans make mistakes

Message boxes, NPCs, cutscenes, doomguy with a voice...

Sallan said:

Co-Op, and the HUD in the first alpha it's much more athmospheric

That huge bulky thing that goes around the edges of the screen? It covers half the gun, and honestly makes the game feel claustrophobic. Why reduce the field of view? Seems pointless, and it looks ugly.

Sallan said:

All type of game has the potential of being better, since the developers are humans and humans make mistakes

Message boxes, NPCs, cutscenes, doomguy with a voice...

..would have made the game much much worse and limited its appeal. These are elements that only kind of work in very new games where the writing has gotten as strong as it is in TV series, such as Uncharted 2-4 and The Witcher 3. Back in the 90s they could barely write good TV, doing something similar for a game would have ended up incredibly cheesy. As such keeping the mystery is half the appeal.

And you are human too, and they were a great team who made the right choice, whereas you're one guy with a sorta terrible idea. :)

Sallan said:

Message boxes, NPCs, cutscenes, doomguy with a voice...

Strife?

Angry Saint said:

Strife?

Well at least that had more realistic/fun levels compared to the alpha's corridors and boxes.

Full agree.

RightField said:

..would have made the game much much worse and limited its appeal. These are elements that only kind of work in very new games where the writing has gotten as strong as it is in TV series, such as Uncharted 2-4 and The Witcher 3. Back in the 90s they could barely write good TV, doing something similar for a game would have ended up incredibly cheesy. As such keeping the mystery is half the appeal.

And you are human too, and they were a great team who made the right choice, whereas you're one guy with a sorta terrible idea. :)

When i talk NPCs i talk about like a moving marine who follow doomguy and help him in battle, not a static one who talk 15 lines of bullshit and add nothing to gameplay, he just will talk one or two lines to player, and why not marine talking badass quotes like Duke Nukem, how this can make game worse?

^ look at Brutal Doom. Those NPCs ruin the fun by taking your kills, and are annoying with the chit-chat.

Voros said:

^ look at Brutal Doom. Those NPCs ruin the fun by taking your kills, and are annoying with the chit-chat.

Overpowered NPCs hum? they dont need to be strong, just supportive, or create the illusion of support, since the game can became more harder if one or more start helping marine, and the chit-chat can be reduced to just ONE.

all supporting NPCs are terrible and chit-chat needs to be properly written and varied, as well as synced with facial animations to feel even a tiny bit real which is a tremendous effort and frankly, it don't think that was ever available, technology wise, when doom was released.