idgames the spare maps

MAP20 and MAP25 are now up to be vanillafied. While not impossible to reproduce their gameplay, they still wont be the same. MAP13, the old MAP09, and many others all use too many boom features to accurately convert to vanilla. These are good maps that need a new home.

All old freedoom maps should be in a pwad and put on idgames.

EDIT> Rewording.

All freedoom maps that are drastically changed or removed should also be on idgames in their original form. We can still keep the classic freedoom maps, but preserve the boom versions in an easily accessible place.

Sure why not? That can be arranged. Preferably as seperate PWADs eg Wesley maps in one WAD, Zok maps in another wad, Doom clone maps in another wad, etc.

How many maps are there?

Some of these maps have been part of Freedoom for more than 10 years and some people actually associate them with this project so just taking them out completely and releasing them seaparately may give a bad impression.

I still think they should remain part of Freedoom in some way, maybe as some sort of "Freedoom Unlimited" add-on?

That wouldn't look like the maps were just dumped - and it may be easier justifying to replace them with something that is actually vanilla compatible.

I mentioned to Zok that he should release his maps on idgames to preserve the originals. These maps could also be preserved on idgames, with vanilla versions in the iwads. There are 12 maps that I know of in freedoom already on idgames, about half have some changes too. I see nothing wrong with uploading the boom maps to idgames anyway, while converting them for the iwads

Reproducing some boom effects is nearly impossible. It is possible make some elaborate mechanism to replicate gameplay, like teleporting keys. When I make something vanilla, I try as best as possible to make the changes not even noticeable.

I really do not want to get rid of these classic freedoom maps, nor mess them up. Ill carefully plan the vanilla conversion. Instead of preserving some gameplay, I will focus on maintaining the feel of the map.

Graf Zahl said:

I still think they should remain part of Freedoom in some way, maybe as some sort of "Freedoom Unlimited" add-on?

Freedoom Unlimited!
Prepare yourself, as you relive the the dread! Play through the story of Freedoom uncut with Freedoom Unlimited! Levels oozing with atmosphere! Music crawling into your ears! And more! Get Freedoom Unlimited now, and enjoy Freedoom with no pesky limits!

I have to agree with Graf Zahl here.

I think you should take these concerns seriously. There's a lot of hostility towards the decision to go full vanilla with Freedoom and just dumping the unconvertible maps on /idgames like this is more than reinforcing the belief that the current maintainers have no respect for the legacy of the Freedoom project. Some of the maps you are talking about have been in here from the very start of the project, like MAP20, 24 and 25 which are all present in the oldest version I could find, from approx. 2002, although in the case of MAP24 a far less finished version.

However, if you make them an official add-on and part of the package it may help calm down people again. I actually like the "Freedoom unlimited" moniker that was suggested.

Tbh I see it as an act of preservation. There are so many assets out there that has been replaced or never been used. This might be a good way to show that the project doesn't just put em up in the attic to collect dust. It might as be an official addon too.

In fact, this might be a good way to promote the usage of the attic!

I've got Zok's and wesley maps kept in three wads atm.

Catoptromancy said:

All old freedoom maps should be in a pwad and put on idgames.

I think that's a good idea, I plan to do it for my Boom MAP01, but I wonder if it should be left up to the level authors themselves to do?

I have mentioned to Zok that he should. But I am not sure who made the very old maps.

Several years ago I bundled up and published a bunch of the cut Freedoom resources. It would probably make sense to do the same for the levels.

If anyone's interested, here's wesley's three maps in one wad:
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=96928865862700374825
Music from KevinHEZ's Velvetic MIDI Pack.
And i think I used this too: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sbbooe7hzdd2cj1/sewersv2.mid?dl=0 (Sodaholic and bytebeats work)

fraggle said:

Several years ago I bundled up and published a bunch of the cut Freedoom resources. It would probably make sense to do the same for the levels.

That's a great idea. I especially like the idea of applying a little bit of editorialisation/curation to make the PWAD interesting/worthwhile in its own right. Kind of like a pico-freedoom that could have been.

Btw @fraggle/anyone else just in case you hadn't noticed there's an interesting comment on that idgames page that suggests the powerglove graphic was stolen.

Yeah, I remember seeing that. An honest mistake on my part - as far as I knew it was legitimate.

fraggle said:

Several years ago I bundled up and published a bunch of the cut Freedoom resources. It would probably make sense to do the same for the levels.

With the amount of older resources having been phased out over the recent years, I believe it is not impossible to compile entire IWADs with alternate levels and graphics.

BTW, I wanted to ask, the leftover.wad contains graphics for the old pinky monster but not its sounds, whereas version 0.1 IWAD does contain unique sounds for it. Have those been removed because they're not original, or for other reasons (e.g. the sounds had not been updated yet at the time of leftover.wad's release)?

I've posted an old-E1M1 standalone RC1 in the "Wads & Mods" forum
https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/93265-the-cursed-hangar-former-freedoom-e1m1-rc1/