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Koko Ricky

What do you think of nightmare mode?

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I think the prominence of players with god-like abilities, as well as the growing speedrunning community, contributed to the ultra nightmare mode thing.

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Still perfectly playable but ultimately uninteresting number scaling changes where the monster damage is bordering on "too much". Now you die in 3 hits instead of 4. DIFFICULTY!!!!!!

Funny how original Doom managed to have harder and harder difficulties without artificially buffing the monster health and damage.

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idbeholdME said:

Still perfectly playable but ultimately uninteresting number scaling changes where the monster damage is bordering on "too much". Now you die in 3 hits instead of 4. DIFFICULTY!!!!!!

Funny how original Doom managed to have harder and harder difficulties without artificially buffing the monster health and damage.


Hey there, I know that original doom UV increased projectile speed and even attack speed and that NM had respawns, but there wasn't even a slight damage increase from the first difficulty to UV? Are you sure of this? I can't remember tbh but I'm just asking.

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massivefanofdoom said:

Hey there, I know that original doom UV increased projectile speed and even attack speed and that NM had respawns, but there wasn't even a slight damage increase from the first difficulty to UV? Are you sure of this? I can't remember tbh but I'm just asking.

Projectile speed increase, attack speed increase and respawning were all part of nightmare, the last difficulty. On easiest difficulty you only received 50% of the damage and that was it, the damage was the same (normal) on all others.

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idbeholdME said:

Projectile speed increase, attack speed increase and respawning were all part of nightmare, the last difficulty. On easiest difficulty you only received 50% of the damage and that was it, the damage was the same (normal) on all others.


thanks, so it was the number of monsters that made uv toughest, now i recall indeed haha! Some rooms were crazy full of them! But the doom16 engine cant do that right? Even snapmap is limited to a certain amount of onscreen monsters per wave.

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massivefanofdoom said:

thanks, so it was the number of monsters that made uv toughest, now i recall indeed haha! Some rooms were crazy full of them! But the doom16 engine cant do that right? Even snapmap is limited to a certain amount of onscreen monsters per wave.

Well, if they were to increase the number of enemies 1. Most computers would crap themselves. There's already so many high detail textures, particles, and polygons on screen. and 2. Most strategy the game already has would be lost because there would be so many enemies that it would just be monotonous and unfair due to the durability, speed, and intelligence of the enemy A.I.
This isn't serious Sam were most enemies just walk up to you and explode or something, this is a game were the most common enemy can throw projectiles in any direction, lead shots, charge a projectile, cling onto walls, and flank you.
Sure, Doom 1 increased projectile speed, enemy speed, and all that stuff, because it was 1993 and making intelligent A.I. like the one in Doom 4 is near impossible.
Also, last time I checked, Doom 4 does increase A.I. In a more subtle way. Ex. Imps in easy difficulties tend to run up and scratch/throw fire you, Imps in medium difficulties charge shots and climb walls more, and Imps in Hard difficulties tend to lead shots more.

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The strategy wouldn't be lost, it would end up being too hectic for many players to notice or understand what the hell is going on. I personally would enjoy it. One of my main things about the monster limit is how it affects snap map and co-op, thus limiting theoretically 4 monster for each player (If there is 4 players). That is one of the main things I find un-alluring about the monster limit. Not to mention this limits monster potential and some creativity in weird snap game modes like monster vs monsters and the like.

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I really love nightmare. It showcases the gameplay design so well. It was the point for me where I had to stop and think about how to be better at what the game wanted me to do. I've always been a medium-difficulty guy, but the difference in experience from UV to Nightmare has made me want to see what other games benefit from a harder difficulty.

(What other people are saying is correct, too. The first couple levels on Nightmare are disproportionately more difficult than the rest. I think the idea there was to really shove the player's face into the idea of "YOU MUST MOVE TO STAY ALIVE.")

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DeadSimple said:

Most computers would crap themselves.


Nevermind most computers, id was shooting for 1080p at 60 fps on consoles and, for the Ps4 at least (The Xbox One's resolution staggers behind), they succeeded there. This isn't the good ole' days where all you needed was a flat sprite.

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MetroidJunkie said:

Nevermind most computers, id was shooting for 1080p at 60 fps on consoles and, for the Ps4 at least (The Xbox One's resolution staggers behind), they succeeded there. This isn't the good ole' days where all you needed was a flat sprite.

Every time someone talks about low specs everyone always mentions consoles. How come nobody mention low end PC gamers(80% of computer gamers)? They influence a games graphics more than Consoles.

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DeadSimple said:

Well, if they were to increase the number of enemies 1. Most computers would crap themselves. There's already so many high detail textures, particles, and polygons on screen. and 2. Most strategy the game already has would be lost because there would be so many enemies that it would just be monotonous and unfair due to the durability, speed, and intelligence of the enemy A.I.
This isn't serious Sam were most enemies just walk up to you and explode or something, this is a game were the most common enemy can throw projectiles in any direction, lead shots, charge a projectile, cling onto walls, and flank you.
Sure, Doom 1 increased projectile speed, enemy speed, and all that stuff, because it was 1993 and making intelligent A.I. like the one in Doom 4 is near impossible.
Also, last time I checked, Doom 4 does increase A.I. In a more subtle way. Ex. Imps in easy difficulties tend to run up and scratch/throw fire you, Imps in medium difficulties charge shots and climb walls more, and Imps in Hard difficulties tend to lead shots more.

You forgot to mention that Imps have fucking x-ray vision. I had two instances, one in Mission 04, where an Imp lobbed a fireball where I was standing, without having a line of sight on me, and the second at the end of Mission 08, where an Imp tried to lead me while I was on high ground, and again, had no line of sight on me. Also, if you watch closely on DraQu's UN speedrun, while he is scaling the tower, the asshole Imps he left alive are capable of nailing the player from literally any distance/elevation. That Imp did not nail him, but it was a close call.

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DeadSimple said:

Every time someone talks about low specs everyone always mentions consoles. How come nobody mention low end PC gamers(80% of computer gamers)? They influence a games graphics more than Consoles.

People have a habit of conveniently ignoring that when talking about their on $4000 PC. It gets a bit silly sometimes, as PCs tends to be the hardest to develop and scale performance for, due to the massive difference in hardware.
For what id needed to do, they did a remarkably good job getting the engine to scale to rather low end PCs and laptops.

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Edward850 said:

People have a habit of conveniently ignoring that when talking about their on $4000 PC.

This is delving further and further off the topic of Doom, but noone in they're right mind would buy a PC any where near the $1000 dollar price range.

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DeadSimple said:

This is delving further and further off the topic of Doom, but noone in they're right mind would buy a PC any where near the $1000 dollar price range.

How much do you think it costs to get decent pc with all the peripherals?(monitor(120hz), speakers and or headphones and a mouse)

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yes, for games. going for more powerful tasks like a professional workstation, The computer itself without anything cost over a grand and up to 4gs.

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MrGlide said:

yes, for games. going for more powerful tasks like a professional workstation, The computer itself without anything cost over a grand and up to 4gs.


I can't understand if he means you'd be crazy to spend over 1000dollars (which is nothing here in europe), or under $1000.

I added *for games* because we must remember a person might need it for games and other intensive tasks like web/design, OR on the other end of the spectrum, a person might just want a pc for work or browsing only.

I think nowadays you could be lucky to get a non gaming rig for 1000 dollars (firsthand), including keyboard and mouse.

For a gaming rig, you need 2000 dollars minimum imo

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massivefanofdoom said:

For a gaming rig, you need 2000 dollars minimum imo

I don't see how this is an opinion. You can see videos on YouTube about great gaming rigs for under 300 dollars. If you buy a PC yourself, yes, maybe it would be a $1000, that's why the PC market is dying. But building PCs is much cheaper and getting more and more popular.
Really we need to just get back on the topic of nightmare mode.

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DeadSimple said:

I don't see how this is an opinion. You can see videos on YouTube about great gaming rigs for under 300 dollars. If you buy a PC yourself, yes, maybe it would be a $1000, that's why the PC market is dying. But building PCs is much cheaper and getting more and more popular.
Really we need to just get back on the topic of nightmare mode.

You make a good point, i just meant buying one of course. At least from my part of the world. I didnt say im all knowing and that's my ill informed opinion i guess.

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DeadSimple said:

I don't see how this is an opinion. You can see videos on YouTube about great gaming rigs for under 300 dollars. If you buy a PC yourself, yes, maybe it would be a $1000, that's why the PC market is dying. But building PCs is much cheaper and getting more and more popular.
Really we need to just get back on the topic of nightmare mode.


ReviewTechUSA (Your opinion on him may vary but still) even made a good video about how to build a good gaming machine for just under $250. It obviously can't max out Doom 2016 but it can certainly run it well enough.

Spoiler

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MetroidJunkie said:

ReviewTechUSA (Your opinion on him may vary but still) even made a good video about how to build a good gaming machine for just under $250. It obviously can't max out Doom 2016 but it can certainly run it well enough.


That's super cool!

I'm already regretting having spent close to 3000euro last april and then a new wave of nvidia cards came out after, and i didnt even have the titan! Plus only 16gb of ram *sigh*

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Getting back to nightmare mode, I finally got past the Hell knight boss battle. Yes, I'm still that early into it. I chipped away for over an hour, and just when I was ready to give up I somehow kicked everyone's ass. It's truly satisfying to recognize that you really are getting better, that you beat the odds by maneuvering just a little faster, and being just a bit more swift with weapon selection and aiming. I'm realizing more and more just how hardcore nightmare is. A single fireball from an imp (not even one of the supercharged ones) can cost you a good 60 hit points. The hell knight can completely demolish you in one stomp even if you're not in point blank range. Crazy.

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GoatLord said:

Getting back to nightmare mode, I finally got past the Hell knight boss battle. Yes, I'm still that early into it. I chipped away for over an hour, and just when I was ready to give up I somehow kicked everyone's ass. It's truly satisfying to recognize that you really are getting better, that you beat the odds by maneuvering just a little faster, and being just a bit more swift with weapon selection and aiming. I'm realizing more and more just how hardcore nightmare is. A single fireball from an imp (not even one of the supercharged ones) can cost you a good 60 hit points. The hell knight can completely demolish you in one stomp even if you're not in point blank range. Crazy.


Do you mean foundry end arena? Do not worry, it will get easier and easier with practice and the accompanying confidence :)

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GoatLord said:

Getting back to nightmare mode, I finally got past the Hell knight boss battle. Yes, I'm still that early into it. I chipped away for over an hour, and just when I was ready to give up I somehow kicked everyone's ass. It's truly satisfying to recognize that you really are getting better, that you beat the odds by maneuvering just a little faster, and being just a bit more swift with weapon selection and aiming. I'm realizing more and more just how hardcore nightmare is. A single fireball from an imp (not even one of the supercharged ones) can cost you a good 60 hit points. The hell knight can completely demolish you in one stomp even if you're not in point blank range. Crazy.

Had you at least gotten the secret rocket launcher, and the lock-on burst mod? Those might have made the Hell Knights easier. Ironically, the Imps are actually the bigger threat in the early levels of Nightmare mode. And, the lobbed fireball does 15 base damage, so on Nightmare, it is 45. The charged fireball does 25 base damage, so 75 on Nightmare.

Another tip: If you ever replay the game, do NOT get the yellow keycard until after you destroy the first two gore nests (rear of starting area and below central area). Picking up the yellow card, unlocks all the Hell Knights in the central area. Iirc, there is one that jumps up from the railing before you enter the yellow door, the second one spawns on the bridge at the beginning of the central area after destroying the third gore nest, and has a chance to rush in when you approach the fourth gore nest, and the last one before the final battle, comes through the first yellow door, after destroying the final gore nest. Should be a useful tip, for anyone who prefers to scavenge for collectibles and secrets AFTER completing all the fights. Of course, this luxury is lost after Mission 04.

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GaussMaster987 said:

there is one that jumps up from the railing before you enter the yellow door


I'll never forget the fright that one gave me, I blindly shot the barrel next to the steps and blew both of us up XD

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massivefanofdoom said:

I'll never forget the fright that one gave me, I blindly shot the barrel next to the steps and blew both of us up XD

Lol. In my recording, I forgot about him, and he followed me through the yellow door. So, I had to stun him, and make my way back out, so I would have enough space to dodge his attacks xD .

A similar story with me, I was in Kadingir Sanctum, on Nightmare Mode working through the enemies in the Baron's arena, and I got to the part with the circle of Lost Souls. I almost shit myself when TWO of them charged me at once. I took a blind shot with the Shotgun grenade, and accidentally set off a chain reaction which killed the entire circle at once xD .

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GaussMaster987 said:

Lol. In my recording, I forgot about him, and he followed me through the yellow door. So, I had to stun him, and make my way back out, so I would have enough space to dodge his attacks xD .

A similar story with me, I was in Kadingir Sanctum, on Nightmare Mode working through the enemies in the Baron's arena, and I got to the part with the circle of Lost Souls. I almost shit myself when TWO of them charged me at once. I took a blind shot with the Shotgun grenade, and accidentally set off a chain reaction which killed the entire circle at once xD .


hahaha good times, you miss those and the adrenaline once you know all the setups by heart :(

ISO selective amnesia machine so i can relive the magic of doom2016 every day!

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