Catoptromancy Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) Making sure all maps can be beaten with 100% Kills, Items, and Secrets is an important goal. I think it is a good time to start making sure 100% scores are possible in skills 2,3, and 4. We need everyone trying to get perfect scores to report on which map and skill used. Can use screenshots, demos, -levelstats, or just report if you can make 100% on a map. Should use prboom-plus with Smart Totals enabled, I think zdoom may also allow smart totals. Archvile resurrections will only complicate things, so some ports can be adjusted to not count resurrected enemies. Can use latest release if the maps have not changed yet, or a daily build. Do not use cheats, spam savegames if the map is hard. Maps should be possible to 100% without jumping or crouching as well. Remember to save game before hitting exit! Level | Skills | Notes C1M1 2 3 4 C1M2 2 - 4 C1M3 2 - 4 C1M4 2 - 4 -Tutti Frutti C1M5 2 - - C1M6 - - - - Skills 2 and maybe 3 need balanced C1M7 2 - - C1M8 2 3 - C1M9 - - 4 - Skills 2 and 3 are not implemented C2M1 - - 4 - Skills 2 and maybe 3 need balanced C2M2 - - - -VPO C2M3 - - - -Secrets and items can be blocked C2M4 2 - 4 C2M5 - - - -Tutti Frutti C2M6 - - 4 -Tutti Frutti C2M7 - 3 4 C2M8 - 3 4 C2M9 - - - C3M1 2 3 4 C3M2 - - 4 C3M3 - - 4 -Tutti Frutti C3M4 - - 4 C3M5 - - - -Placeholder Map C3M6 - - 4 C3M7 - - - -Cannot 100%, items and monsters in void C3M8 - - - -Cannot 100%, no items C3M9 - - - -Cannot 100%, no secrets C4M1 2 3 4 C4M2 2 3 4 C4M3 2 3 4 C4M4 2 - - C4M5 2 - - C4M6 - - - -Skill balancing in lower skills C4M7 2 3 4 C4M8 2 3 4 C4M9 2 3 4 MAP01 2 3 4 MAP02 2 3 4 MAP03 2 3 4 MAP04 2 - 4 -Tutti Frutti MAP05 2 3 4 MAP06 2 - 4 MAP07 2 3 4 MAP08 - x 4 -Skill 2, Cannot 100% zombie man in closet, Tutti Frutti MAP09 2 3 4 -VPO MAP10 - x - -Cannot 100%, monsters stuck in closet MAP11 - - - -In Dev MAP12 - - - -Limit Removing MAP13 2 - - MAP14 2 - - MAP15 - - - -Limit Removing MAP16 2 3 - MAP17 2 3 4 MAP18 - - - -Cannot 100%. There is one item in void. MAP19 - - - -Backtracking blocked, lower skill adjust MAP20 - - - -Cannot 100% no secrets MAP21 2 - - MAP23 - - - MAP24 2 - - MAP25 - - - -Limit Removing MAP26 - - - -Placeholder MAP27 - - - -Needs work MAP28 - - - -Limit Removing MAP29 - - - -Limit Removing MAP30 - - - -Cannot 100, No Secrets, Tutti Frutti MAP31 2 3 4 MAP32 - - - -Cannot 100, Unreachable Secrets Old lists, wont be updated. Spoiler Maps to skip: Spoiler These are maps that need major work. Can still run test them, but maps will change. C2M5: In Dev C2M9: Limit Removing C3M5: Placeholder Map C3M9: In Dev MAP11: MAP12: Limit Removing MAP15: Limit Removing MAP17 Skill balance on lower skills MAP19: Backtracking blocked, lower skill adjust MAP23: Backtracking blocked MAP27 MAP28: Limit Removing MAP29: Limit Removing MAP30: Maps listed have been tested. Maps broken are labelled. -Skill 4 Spoiler C1M1 C1M2 C1M3 C1M4 C1M9 C2M1 C2M3: Secrets and items can be blocked C2M4 C2M6 C2M7 C2M8 C3M1 C3M2 C3M3 C3M4 C3M6: 4 C3M7: Cannot 100%, items and monsters in void C3M8: Cannot 100%, no items C3M9: Cannot 100%, no secrets MAP01 MAP02 MAP03 MAP04 MAP05 MAP06 MAP07 MAP08 MAP09 MAP10: cannot 100%. Three monsters stuck in closet. MAP18: cannot 100%. There is one item in void. MAP20: Cannot 100% no secrets MAP22: Cannot 100% MAP23: Backtracking blocked MAP30: Cannot 100: No Secrets MAP32: Cannot 100: Unreachable Secrets -Skill 3 Spoiler C1M1 C2M3: Secrets and items can be blocked C3M1 C3M9: Cannot 100%, no secrets MAP07 MAP09 MAP16 MAP17 MAP20: Cannot 100% no secrets MAP23: Backtracking blocked MAP30: Cannot 100: No Secrets MAP32: Cannot 100: Unreachable Secrets -Skill 2 Spoiler C1M1 C2M3: Secrets and items can be blocked C3M9: Cannot 100%, no secrets MAP01 MAP02 MAP03 MAP04 MAP05 MAP06 MAP07 MAP08: Cannot 100% zombie man in closet MAP10: Cannot 100%, 2 monsters stuck in closet. MAP13 MAP14 MAP16 MAP18 MAP20: Cannot 100% no secrets MAP21: MAP23: Backtracking blocked MAP24 MAP30: Cannot 100: No Secrets MAP32: Cannot 100: Unreachable Secrets Edited April 4, 2017 by Catoptromancy 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 5, 2017 I have finished MAP01-09 with 100%/100%/100%, in skill 4 without saves and from pistol start. Well, except for MAP06 (before than the swap). There is one soulsphere in the void and I can get only 98% for secrets. Edit 1. C1M1, C1M2, C1M3, C1M9, C3M1 and C3M2 as well. And it seems there are no countable items (at least for skill 4) in MAP22, so that player cannot get 100% for items. Edit 2 100%/100%/100% for E2M1 too. I have already noticed that certain zones exclusive of multiplayer mode are no longer tagged as secrets. Good. Edit 3 100%/100%/100% for E2M7. These new sprites for the Pain Lords are another thing... 0 Share this post Link to post
Voros Posted March 5, 2017 For uv, why not following this guy's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/pagb66 ? Excluding playthroughs where neccessary. Finished map16 on skill 3, 100% Edit: c1m1 and c3m1 on skill 3, 100% I don't understand why I keep getting 50% secrets on map01 though. I got the red armor secret and the armor bonus secret. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 5, 2017 It’s one sensible choice, but I prefer exploring the entire levels and discovering secrets by myself whenever possible. 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 5, 2017 Can skip to end of video to make sure its 100%. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 6, 2017 100%/100%/100% for C3M6 (Extreme Carnage, no codes, no saves and from pistol start) is possible, just tested. However, would be very convenient to add one backpack in the start zone. Currently, player has to backtrack lots of times to refill the shotgun ammo. And perhaps replace that one light armor with a heavy one. Take into account that, initially, player is given to recover some health only one secret berseker pack, and until the very end of the level isn’t possible to get that soulsphere or whatever is that named. At least that one armor should be a heavy one. C3M3 as well, same conditions than above. Edit. Is C3M7 definitive? Or will be replaced in the medium term? I remember something about this level being actually the leftovers of MAP30. Or viceversa, not sure. Edit 2. 100%/0%/100% for C3M8, same conditions than above. Unfortunately, there are no countable items, so I cannot get 100% for items. A few of armor / health bonus should do the trick. Edit 3. Don’t forget to add C3M3, has been completed: 100%/100%/100% (Extreme Carnage, no codes, no saves and from pistol start). C2M6 and C2M8, 100%/100%/100% (Extreme Carnage, no codes, no saves and from pistol start) as well. Edit 4. Unless otherwise noted my runs are in skill 4, with no saves, with no codes and from pistol start. C2M4: 100%/100%/100% and finished with 200%/200% (full health and full heavy armor). C1M4: 100%/100%/100%. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 7, 2017 New post... 100%/100%/100% is possible for MAP06 (the new one, not the old one). 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 7, 2017 Here is a couple cheat sheets. http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/random/fd1.log http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/random/fd2.log C3M9, MAP20, MAP30 have no secrets. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 8, 2017 I am currently playing C3M7 and it’s a nice map as standalone map (once that assault tripod is defeated), not so as prelude to the battle with the IoS. Having to replay such long and challenging map just because of getting killed in the battle with the IoS (very luck based) is excessive and unfair. Unfortunately, I cannot get 100%/100%/100% and I have beaten this map twice. There is one phantom overdrive sphere in the void and one trilobite which manages to enter into the void and it’s therefore unkillable. Save compatible with Vanilla and Chocolate Doom. Because certain lifts / doors are locked forever and this map doesn’t allow backtracking, IDSPISPOPD is needed for that. http://litriviniv.esy.es/saves/C3M7%20EC%20PS.zip Spoiler Edit: the trilobite in the void is thing #163. The overdrive sphere is thing #212. 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 8, 2017 100% is an excellent testing category. Maps that cannot be backtracked to get 100% is also something that needs labelled as broken. When posting an issue or map report please use format from the spoilers, to make list simplified. A good description post is also helpful. Example:C3M7: Cannot 100%, items and monsters in voidEDIT> If you want you can also edit/fix a map and post it here. Can rampage on godmode for quick testing of edited maps to 100%. EDIT> I am slowly working on -skill 2. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 8, 2017 Skill 4: MAP18: cannot 100%. There is one item in void. Save compatible with both Vanilla and Chocolate Doom. Enter IDCLIP and go left. There is one overdrive sphere in void. http://litriviniv.esy.es/saves/MAP18%20EC%20PS.zip Catoptromancy said:EDIT> If you want you can also edit/fix a map and post it here. Can rampage on godmode for quick testing of edited maps to 100%. I will do so when I manage to compile the latest version of Yadex, the one offered by chungy. Only minor fixes like modifying the properties of certain sector, linedef, thing and whatnot. Or deleting these offending things. 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 8, 2017 Have you tried the Eureka editor? It is a more updated Yadex fork. I use Slade3 for all editing, and Eureka for error checking. EDIT> Skill 2 MAP08: Cannot 100%, zombie man in closet Skill2 MAP10: Cannot 100%, 2 monsters stuck in closet. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 9, 2017 Only Yadex works for me. Skill 4 C3M4 Comments: 100%/100%/100%. Edit. MAP25 is limit-removing as well. Shall I skip this map, therefore? MAP26 has been discarded and replaced with placeholder, at least in daily builds. 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 9, 2017 All testing is for latest repo. All new maps or updated maps submitted should be fully tested from now on, in all skills(2-4). Another good testing tip. Check out other skill's problems, they might transfer. Just found void monsters in MAP10, probably happens in skill 3 and 4 too. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 9, 2017 Well, for that level I got 97% (kills)/100%/100%, skill 4 of course. I will retest this one. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 9, 2017 Skill 4. MAP10: cannot 100%. Three monsters stuck in closet. Comments: newly, I have got 97% (kills)/100%/100%, due to three monsters stuck in certain monster cache. Save: http://litriviniv.esy.es/saves/MAP10%20EC%20PS.zip 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 9, 2017 MAP17 needs serious skill adjustments. Adding it to list of maps to skip. MAP19 blocked backtracking, the sphere teleports can be removed from sphere side so player goes back to start. Also needs lower skill adjustments. Skip. EDIT> Skip 31 MAP32: Cannot 100%: Unreachable Secrets 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 9, 2017 And MAP31, tested today in skill 4. Once telefragged these five cyberdemons / assault tripods, having to punch to death, literally, the last one weakened by just one BFG / SKAG 1337 blast and more or less 20 shotgun shells (normal shotgun, on top of that...) and 50 bullets is just crazy and unfair. At least one big cell pack should be added in the secret where player gets one SKAG 1337. Or an invulnerability sphere so that player can securely punch it to death once depleted the scarce ammo. Even just replacing the normal shotgun with a double-barreled one and adding another box of shells should be enough to have a fairer combat with that last monster. Edit: my bad, MAP31 does have one big cell pack. So replacing the normal shotgun with a double-barreled one and replacing those shells with a box of shells should be enough to have a fairer combat. Anyway, it’s a very luck based puzzle level and maybe the most sensitive option would be simply replace it. 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 9, 2017 Litrivin said:Anyway, it’s a very luck based puzzle level and maybe the most sensitive option would be simply replace it. There is no luck, unless trying to get 100% I presume. I can beat the map in exactly 20 seconds every time. I have only died on it once, the first time. Once player learns to not shoot, map is trivial. Still not sure about it. I do like the shortcut of just not waking up monsters. But there is also only one exit. Maybe a silent route for secret exit, and a route that involves rough battle for normal exit. Or swapped. I think map is very salvageable, if both exits are used. 0 Share this post Link to post
Voros Posted March 10, 2017 Litrivin said:And MAP31, tested today in skill 4. Once telefragged these five cyberdemons / assault tripods, having to punch to death, literally, the last one weakened by just one BFG / SKAG 1337 blast and more or less 20 shotgun shells (normal shotgun, on top of that...) and 50 bullets is just crazy and unfair. At least one big cell pack should be added in the secret where player gets one SKAG 1337. Or an invulnerability sphere so that player can securely punch it to death once depleted the scarce ammo. Even just replacing the normal shotgun with a double-barreled one and adding another box of shells should be enough to have a fairer combat with that last monster. Edit: my bad, MAP31 does have one big cell pack. So replacing the normal shotgun with a double-barreled one and replacing those shells with a box of shells should be enough to have a fairer combat. Anyway, it’s a very luck based puzzle level and maybe the most sensitive option would be simply replace it. Let's not forget that it's a secret map made to different from the maps in the normal progression. There's a reason the map is named "Be Quiet". It's an easy map if you follow the gimmick of this map. But I have no objections with adding an invulnerability sphere. It could use that the most, but other stuff like the super shotgun weapon, probably not. For people wanting to 100%, it becomes a lot harder because they'll have to be forced to shoot their guns. A better way to keep the gimmick, if you ask me, is make infighting between the cybers much more likely. Or even better, add a second route of switches that activates crushers over the cybers, to lighten the load. In short, it's not a luck based level, just like how map30 isn't a luck based level. It's about your approach to the map. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 10, 2017 For 100% runs, there is luck heavily involved: Player has to instigate an infight between one assault tripod (cyberdemon) and serpentides (imps) of the room which contains one shotgun, in order to distract this assault tripod and have some time to enter into one teleport and telefrag the assault tripod of the opposite side and telefrag the distracted assault tripod. Instigating successfully this combat (obviously, the imps are instakilled...) and managing to enter into the alcoves are very luck based things. Then, player needs to backtrack and telefrag another two assault tripods. Player has to activate by shooting (wasting that scarce shotgun ammo...) two switches which will open two alcoves with a teleport to telefrag these two assault tripods and get the goods. Newly, very luck based, mainly due to the huge size of blockmap of assault tripods. Last thing, the combat with the remaining and alerted assault tripod, with just 3 SKAG blasts, some shells and some bullets. Killing a cyberdemon with only two BFG blasts is possible, but it’s something very luck based... Edit because I have seen this new post. Cyberdemons won’t infight, they are immune to splash damage and rockets of others cyberdemons. Anyway, the main issue is the lack of two proper exits (normal + secret). 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 10, 2017 MAP23 has always been a mess. MAP23: Backtracking blocked in several areas. Skip test for now. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 10, 2017 Skill 4. MAP31. 100% doable with certain gimmicks. I have managed to complete one 100%/100%/100% run of MAP31, skill 4, from pistol start and no codes, with a few of saves / loads in order to exploit certain feature of Vanilla / Chocolate Doom: targets not preserved in saved games. This way, player can save and load several times in order to shoot at the last cyberdemon / assault tripod three BFG / SKAG 1337 blasts at point-blank range. These three blasts at point-blank range and few of shells will defeat that last monster. Vanilla / Chocolate saves: http://litriviniv.esy.es/saves/MAP31%20EC%20PS.zip Regarding the normal + secret exit issue and merely as a humble suggestion, just convert the right exit pad into one normal exit and delete the teleport destination of that cage where player is jailed at the start of this map. Optionally (this is inspired by FreeDM MAP15), add one cage to the secret exit, like the one which confines initially player. Player will have to locate and activate one secret switch (to be added...) custodied by one of these cyberdemons / assault tripods in order to rise one bar of that cage and reach once and for all the supersecret level. 0 Share this post Link to post
Voros Posted March 11, 2017 Skill 3, map01-03 and 05, 100% I would also say map04, but I couldn't figure out how to open the secret in the lift. 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 11, 2017 Voros said:the lift. http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/demos/freedoom/random-demos/roflift-0.11.lmp Oh yes. It will be gone by next release. Better yet, remove secret tag, remove items, add a plasma gun with small ammo pack. Will not count towards items or secrets. Makes area actually worth going to, while making not required. 0 Share this post Link to post
Voros Posted March 11, 2017 Catoptromancy said: Spoiler Much more friendly to read. Level | Skills | Notes C1M1 2 3 4 C1M2 2 - 4 C1M3 2 - 4 C1M4 2 - 4 C1M5 2 - - C1M8 2 - - C1M9 - - 4 C2M1 - - 4 C2M4 - - 4 C2M5 - - - -In Dev C2M6 - - 4 C2M7 - - 4 C2M8 - - 4 C2M9 - - - -Limit Removing C3M1 - 3 4 C3M2 - - 4 C3M3 - - 4 C3M4 - - 4 C3M5 - - - -Placeholder Map C3M6 - - 4 C3M7 - - - -Cannot 100%, items and monsters in void C3M8 - - - -Cannot 100%, no items C3M9 - - - -Cannot 100%, no secrets MAP01 2 3 4 MAP02 2 3 4 MAP03 2 3 4 MAP04 2 - 4 MAP05 2 3 4 MAP06 2 - 4 MAP07 2 3 4 MAP08 - - 4 -Skill 2, Cannot 100% zombie man in closet MAP09 2 3 4 MAP10 - - - -Cannot 100%, monsters stuck in closet MAP11 - - - -In Dev MAP12 - - - -Limit Removing MAP13 2 - - MAP14 2 - - MAP15 - - - -Limit Removing MAP16 2 3 - MAP17 - - 4 -Skill balance needed on lower skills MAP18 - - - -Cannot 100%. There is one item in void. MAP19 - - - -Backtracking blocked, lower skill adjust MAP20 - - - -Cannot 100% no secrets MAP21 2 - - MAP23 - - - -Backtracking blocked at start and exit. MAP24 2 - - MAP25 - - - -Limit Removing MAP26 - - - -Placeholder MAP27 - - - -Needs work MAP28 - - - -Limit Removing MAP29 - - - -Limit Removing MAP30 - - - -Cannot 100, No Secrets MAP31 - - 4 MAP32 - - - -Cannot 100, Unreachable Secrets 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 11, 2017 I haven’t beaten MAP17 or reported anything about this level... By the way, why not fill the few gaps remaining? C2M2 - - - -There are still visplane overflows C2M3 - - - -Secrets and items can be blocked 0 Share this post Link to post
Voros Posted March 12, 2017 Skill 3, map 08 and 10, can't 100% on kills (stuck monsters) Map20, I haven't played yet, but it has 0 secrets, so not 100% either. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 12, 2017 Skill 4. MAP23: 100% is doable. Backtracking blocked in at least two zones and monsters can teleport at the wrong moment. Comments: Player cannot backtrack to location which contains the first berserker pack and the first monsters. Also, player cannot backtrack from the big exit chamber. This map should be very careful checked, I have detected at least one Boom teleport and many scrolling surfaces incompatible with Vanilla. It seems that, for Vanilla / Chocolate, monsters of exit chamber will not teleport in the proper moment to create an ambush when the player goes to that secret with a heavy armor and another berserker pack. With PrBoom -complevel 9 they will do so. With Vanilla / Chocolate, they will not create an ambush in that secret. Instead of that, they will wait for player in the exit chamber and, when few of them get killed either by infighting or by player, few of them can escape by teleporting to that secret. Player cannot backtrack, so there is no way of killing them without cheats. Saves (for Vanilla / Chocolate), in the last one few of monsters escaped to that secret once I reached the exit chamber. When I got that berserker pack and that heavy armor, I did not see any teleported monster waiting for me in an ambush. http://litriviniv.esy.es/saves/MAP23%20EC%20PS.zip 0 Share this post Link to post